Offensive blog entry about the term Autie (Ransom Notes)

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LeKiwi
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28 Dec 2007, 5:35 pm

siuan wrote:
I don't understand the power of words. Words are just words. They only become more than that when people decide to attach feeling to them. I think our country is in the process of hanging itself with political correctness.

My thoughts on aspie/autie/NT is that it helps us, in our home, have conversations. My husband and I have AS, and our children both have Autism. We use the word aspie frequently. I don't like the word autie, just because some words don't feel or sound "right" to me, but that is one of my AS-isms and has nothing to do with the meaning of the word. I dunno. I guess people who whine about this stuff are fortunate, for I have much bigger worries in life.


It's not so much the thinking about it and attaching that's the problem; it's the effect the words have subconsciously without you even thinking about it.

The suffix '-ey'/'-ie'/'-y' etc automatically make something appear less credible, younger, 'cuter', less serious, or immature... so creating words ending in them has that effect without you even thinking about it or realising it.

Most NTs won't even realise this, which is why it's a problem. A lot of ASers won't either to behonest, but even so, the fact that this conversation is being held says something!


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anbuend
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28 Dec 2007, 5:43 pm

Yeah but there are a lot of names that work like that.

I mean, does Brummie mean that all people from Birmingham are childlike!? It's just a way people talk, they shorten things all the time.


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LeKiwi
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28 Dec 2007, 5:47 pm

Not at all; this is just generally speaking, and especially when talking about something 'serious'.

Brummie does, again though, have that 'cute' suffix on it. "Awww, he's a silly little Brummie!" as opposed to "Oh, he's from Birmingham".


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alex
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28 Dec 2007, 5:49 pm

gbollard wrote:
Alex said:
Quote:
I'd like to start some sort of campaign to debunk the misleading information from Autism Speaks that parents get sucked into. I'd like to discredit Autism Speaks to the population at large.



So how do we start?

Compile a list of the things we think are misleading?


yeah and put those points in the form of a press release and get it out to as many media sources as possible. I can work on writing a press release in a way that will make outlets want to run the story if we can compile the info. (i've been able to get coverage in the past for WrongPlanet and I think that a press release about autism speaks will be controversial enough to get even more coverage than any of the releases I've sent before.


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anbuend
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28 Dec 2007, 5:51 pm

And I really want a noun form of autistic person that isn't "autistic". I'll use "autistic", but "autie" sounds more friendly, and it's shorter and easy to put into phrases.

Such as "good-autie/bad-autie" which is a term I use for when in a place dominated by opinions about autism that are not informed by autistic people's experiences (on a personal and/or political level) at all. When autistic people walk into such a situation, it's not uncommon for someone who is mostly agreeing or neutral to be treated as the "good-autie", and then if anyone says "No, hey, this is just wrong," then they'll get called the "bad-autie" and the "good-autie" will then be held up as "See, not all autistic people are bad like that person." The fact that the other autistic person was not bad, but just making a point (often in a much less belligerent or nasty way than some of the non-autistic people in the discussion -- you can be a bad autie even if you state the "wrong" opinion in unfailingly polite language allowing every opportunity for someone to say you're wrong and so forth), gets lost in the confusion.

(I have heard of that happening in other situations, too. One I remember reading about was a black woman who was in a woman's studies class full of only white women except one other black woman, and a lot of them were being incredibly racist. The other black woman eventually pointed this out and stormed out of the room. The first black woman stayed there, not to say she agreed, but to bear witness to what was going on there. The rest of the class treated her like the "good black woman" even though she didn't agree with their racism any more than the woman who stormed out did, and they consistently tried to use her to make the other person look bad.)

Oddly, I've been both the good autie and the bad autie in different situations. They both feel horrible, especially when the person on the opposite side of it is your friend.

But, to get back to the point. Those are the sort of situations where I prefer autie, when I just want a shorter word that sounds less clinical.


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28 Dec 2007, 5:53 pm

alex wrote:
I'd like to start some sort of campaign to debunk the misleading information from Autism Speaks that parents get sucked into. I'd like to discredit Autism Speaks to the population at large. They shouldn't be using 1 in 150 to get fundraising when they make it seem like all autistics are low functioning


I work in the media and would be happy to help. PM me Alex and we can chat in the new year about re-framing some perceptions. We have information from living our lives, not from theories and speculation. My biggest fear has always been that I'd be 'found out' as being crazy, sectioned and forced to take pills or have ECT. That's why i never told anyone what was really going on in my head until I married another aspie.


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28 Dec 2007, 5:57 pm

MsBehaviour wrote:
alex wrote:
I'd like to start some sort of campaign to debunk the misleading information from Autism Speaks that parents get sucked into. I'd like to discredit Autism Speaks to the population at large. They shouldn't be using 1 in 150 to get fundraising when they make it seem like all autistics are low functioning


I work in the media and would be happy to help. PM me Alex and we can chat in the new year about re-framing some perceptions. We have information from living our lives, not from theories and speculation. My biggest fear has always been that I'd be 'found out' as being crazy, sectioned and forced to take pills or have ECT. That's why i never told anyone what was really going on in my head until I married another aspie.


Ditto I.

Most of my contacts are in New Zealand too, so there could be crossover there, but I live and work in the UK with plenty of good contacts here if you want any. :)

The more the better I think; get media in every country.


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28 Dec 2007, 5:58 pm

While press releases may help, I don't think they'll help much. If you want to change the public's perception, you need to show them. That means media exposure of the people who are doing OK, who - God forbid - are able to communicate and articulate. 1,000 press releases saying we can speak for ourselves aren't worth one person on NBC's Today talking straight to the camera and showing we can speak for ourselves.
That's what it's got to be. Giving examples. I was asked a few days ago about what my ideal Aperger's ad campaign would be, in the aftermath of the ransom note debacle. My answer is that I'd go out and find successful people, ideally that are known to the public, feature them on posters (with their permission, of course), and add a few descriptors. Let's assume Keanu Reeves is Aspergian (it's rumoured, but there's no confirmation). Put a picture of him up, with the legend at the bottom:

Quote:
Communicator
Action Hero
Autistic

Autism is more than you think. Find out at www.wrongplanet.net

A campaign like that, with say 6 or 7 prominent individuals from different career paths, that would shatter public perceptions.


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28 Dec 2007, 6:26 pm

Yeah, let's just label people who we think are autistic as a part of this campaign. That would be funny, saying Autism Speaks is trying to mislead people by quoting CORRECT statistics, while you assume people like Keanu Reeves are autistic.

Wikipedia wrote:
Reeves excelled more in hockey than in academics, his educational development being stymied by dyslexia. He was a successful goalie at one of his high schools, (De La Salle College "Oaklands"). His team nicknamed him "The Wall," and voted him MVP. Reeves says that he would dream of becoming an Olympic hockey player for Canada. After leaving De La Salle College, he attended a free school (Avondale Alternative), which allowed him to obtain an education while working as an actor; he later dropped out, never obtaining his high school diploma.

Sounds undeniably autistic to me, yeah.



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28 Dec 2007, 6:33 pm

It was an example, to give an idea of what such a campaign would look like. I don't know if Reeves is autistic or not. But his is a name which comes up repeatedly amongst celeb Aspergians, and Attwood says often that there are many Aspergians who're actors. The point is to get some well-known autists involved. You did notice that I did say "with their permission," right? Perhaps next time you ought to read what I wrote.

(Edited for clarity and to remove personal attack.)


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28 Dec 2007, 7:11 pm

More on the Offensive Blahhhg topic

mmaestro wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:
The figures I extracted from the UK National Autistic Society were LFA 5 per 10,000 and HFA/AS 63 per 10,000. Any thoughts?

The HFA/AS comes out at about 1 in 159, that seems a high proportion to me but not outrageously so. LFA is 1 in 2,000 and I really don't have enough experience with how common it is to judge it's accurace. (Edited for clarity.)

On the topic to hand, I actually really hate the terms autie/aspie, precisely because they're cutsie and take the diminutive form. They imply childishness, which frankly is the last sort of impression I want to give of autists - that's why I use autist and aspergian instead. I've spent a lot (a lot) of time studying politics, campaign strategy, and the use of language to create impressions and tendancies in the populations you're campaigning in. The use of language is incredibly sophisticated these days, and there's an enormous understanding of how just one word, or a frame from which you make a point, can alter a population's perception of things. Autie and Aspie are bad words, they're really harmful for us if we want to be taken seriously because they immediately conjure a frame within which we are childlike and incapable. That's not a frame you want to create, ever.
I do realise that these are the terms created by the community, but part of that reason is, I'm afraid, that autists in general don't understand the subtleties of language and the hidden implications within what's said. It's just not something we get, and it's not something we react to, either. NTs mostly don't understand it, either, but they do react to it a surprising amount, so we need to use the right sort of language if we want to advocate for ourselves.

Some of the blogger's points are well made - the cutesy one especially so. The rest, not so much, but then that's because he's a pro-cure guy. My thoughts on that are a whole other comment, possibly topic in and of itself, but from a purely linguistic point of view, whether it's a term autists created for themselves or not, it's still a bad one we should cease to use. I don't think it's offensive per se, it's just... it doesn't give the right impression.


This was an extremely well-reasoned argument about the use of terms Aspie and Autie.

The terms we use to label ourselves constantly evolve. Marginalized peoples like African Americans hated being called the n word, as Alex pointed out in this forum. Before African Americans called themselves that, they were Negro, Black and Coloured Peoples. I even think for a time they included themselves in People of Colour.

Having said as much, I will continue to use Aspie and Autie in my "in group", but when I discuss anything with NTs I use the term "Person(s) Living on the Autistic Spectrum". Your terminology (Aspergian and Autist) would also work as those terms lend more dignity, like African American.

Thank you for enlightening me.



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28 Dec 2007, 7:24 pm

alex wrote:
They shouldn't be using 1 in 150 to get fundraising when they make it seem like all autistics are low functioning

Autism Speaks gets the number from the CDC.

It's the CDC claiming this. Autism Speaks is merely copying.


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anbuend
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28 Dec 2007, 7:35 pm

Okay... the CDC does not claim the same thing as organizations like Autism Speaks does.

The CDC makes it very clear that it is people diagnosed with autism (of all "levels of functioning" in standard-speak, as in both "LFA" and "HFA"), PDD-NOS, and Asperger's, who are all included in that 1 in 150.

Organizations such as Autism Speaks, and assorted people outside of organizations as well, use the 1 in 150 statistic, but then they use the most dire-seeming stereotype of autistic people as if that is all or most of the 1 in 150. Some of them will immediately say "You're not the ones we're talking about" if autistic people object to them, except, every sort of autistic person are the ones they're talking about if they're using the number.

That's where the dishonesty comes in. It's similar to what a friend of mine pointed out. A lot of CILs (Centers for Independent Living, which are supposed to be run by disabled people to assist other disabled people) will cite numbers such as one in five people in the USA are disabled. That number is accurate only if far more people beyond physically disabled people are counted. But many of the same CILs will discriminate against and/or refuse to serve and/or be really hostile to people with psych labels, developmental disabilities, learning disabilities, etc. or disabilities that are either "not severe enough" or "too severe" ( and these people of course make up a large chunk of that 1 in 5).

The problem isn't the numbers. It's using one number for fundraising (including sometimes for shock value) but then claiming that you're only about one tiny portion of that number. And then pretending that the people you're saying you're about serving, make up that entire number or most of it. Autism Speaks has done that (I'm not talking about on the bulletin boards, which I don't read anymore, I am talking about in official statements they've come out with). Many CILs have done that. Many people and organizations in the autism world and the disability world have done that. That is the dishonest part.


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28 Dec 2007, 7:49 pm

Am not a person with aspergers,and use the term autie on self and in the autistic community when being specific about classic/kanner or aspergers,and autist or autistic for overall term.
Am notice he didn't say autistics [as in classic/kanner type] use the word 'autie',does he assume are all too profoundly MR and "locked in own minds" to realise there is an autistic community,and are taking part in it?

Having further read what anbuend has said,he obviously has a problem with coping with autism,and should get some help for his own problems.
He should be seeing those autists who have fought their challenges,and improved no matter how slight or great-positively,not denie their existance or try to bellitle their experience,that is just petty.


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28 Dec 2007, 8:34 pm

mmaestro wrote:
It was an example, to give an idea of what such a campaign would look like. I don't know if Reeves is autistic or not. But his is a name which comes up repeatedly amongst celeb Aspergians, and Attwood says often that there are many Aspergians who're actors. The point is to get some well-known autists involved. You did notice that I did say "with their permission," right? Perhaps next time you ought to read what I wrote.

Good luck with that. I'd be surprised if Tony Attwood himself was able to get anyone. Sure I didn't read all of what you wrote, but your plan is still a doomed faillure.



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28 Dec 2007, 9:48 pm

I call myself autie; I've a piece of paper that says I have autistic disorder, it's just lacking in the whole Axis II mental retardation thingy.

There's no way the difficulties I face are "trivial"; I'd be homeless/dead if it wasn't for my mother, i.e., I'm unable to organize government aid for myself.