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whirlingmind
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23 Nov 2012, 7:21 am

However, I do not agree with OPs idea, and I've said elsewhere on this thread that I don't think that any disciplining tactics (and in my own experience rewards have only very limited success and only some of them) work for children with Asperger's, because the behaviour comes from a disorder and the response to disciplining will not be 'normal'.


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23 Nov 2012, 7:39 am

Ohiophile wrote:
This is just a scam, come on! Some of these people being told they have asperger's are just smart, introverted people with bad social skills. Others are people who don't talk because they have crummy parents who put them in front of a television/nintendo and feed them junk food. Yeah, that will cause mood swings, shorten your attention span, and prevent you from interacting with others at a crucial age for development, making it difficult to socialize. It will also make you out of shape (hypotonia). Others are just kids who haven't been disciplined properly (temper tantrums, silent.

People have always been making money off of other people's misfortunes! "Hey remember those skinny, geeky kids in school who everybody made fun of? Lets make money off of them, telling them that we can solve all of their problems! We can make them pay to go to therapy, hire a new set of teachers, and sell them prescription drugs!" It's just like when the Catholic Church would make money off of people saying they were destined for hell, but if you come to us and pay us some money we will save you from eternal damnation.

The point is, the diagnostic criteria was broadened for autism spectrum disorders to include all of these kids who don't really have a disorder. Some kids are just sensitive and shy, tell them to suck it up and quit crying like people did a few generations ago.


lol. No.
I'm introverted and smart. I also have Asperger's.
My parents spanked me as a child. They taught me to have manners. They made me eat my vegetables.
The television has never particularly interested me. There wasn't a computer in the house until I was 16.
I got a Gameboy at 13, but my time on it was limited as my parents didn't want me to spend all my time playing video games.
I don't have mood swings.
My attention span is fine.
I had plenty of opportunities to interact with others. It was my inborn social disability that prevented me from using those opportunities.
My muscles are hypertonic, and hypotonicity is not about being out of shape. At least try to get your facts straight.
Oh, tantrums, that's another thing I don't have. I can't remember much before the age of about 3 3/4, so I may have had tantrums as a toddler (almost certainly, and I was an awful baby going by my mother's reports), but none since.


If you think that Asperger's is just "being sensitive or shy" or "poor social skills" or "being a geek", you know f**k all about it.
Shyness is shyness. It's a fear of social situations. One of the symptoms of AS is an impairment in social skills. Get someone to explain to you the difference between fear and impairment. It's kind of like how blind people aren't scared of seeing, and how telling them to be less sight-shy is useless and insulting.
People with AS do often tend to be more sensitive to sensory stimuli, but that's because of abnormal processing of sensory input, not being a wimp. Personally, I "suck it up" every time I don't whine about the burning pain caused by my hair touching my skin, and every time I don't hit people because their voices are hurting my ears. And by "every time" I mean "every day".
Poor social skills is only one symptom of Asperger's. Try actually reading the diagnostic criteria before mouthing off about things.
Being a geek is not the same as AS. For one thing, not everyone with AS is a geek, and secondly, being a geek is not a disability.

Asperger's is not "whiny, shy, sensitive, ill-disciplined geek syndrome". It is a type of autism, with (typically) better speech, fewer cognitive issues, and better self-care skills. The basic autistic impairments are still very much present.


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23 Nov 2012, 7:42 am

nessa238 wrote:
By the logic of the people who are against disciplining children,


I have never heard anyone say they are against disciplining children. But your point illustrates something that I have often noticed when watching other parents. Many people seem to equate "discipline" with "spanking." And that if you don't spank your kids, you don't discipline them.

FTR, I am not against properly implemented physical punishment in all cases. The problem is that most people lack the emotional and physical control required to properly use physical punishment. Mostly because it should never be done in anger and I would venture to guess that most people are fairly angry when spanking their kids. For that reason, I think most people would do best to avoid it all together because it usually involves some degree of loss of control on their part, and that is never appropriate, IMHO.

nessa238 wrote:

I am very interested to know how the people who are against physical discipline (when all other methods have failed) would solve this problem.


In my house, it's the words "If you do that again, you will lose your screen time" strikes fear into the hearts of both of my kids! :wink:


nessa238 wrote:
It is a parent's job to set boundaries of behaviour for their child, so that they are able to grow into an adult who knows how to behave appropriately towards others and takes responsibility for their own behaviour.


I couldn't agree with you more. And I do not spank my children. I did when they were younger under very limited circumstances, but at 7 and 11, I would say they are both way too old for spanking to be the most effective way of behavioral control. When kids are really little and have difficulty reasoning, sometimes the mama lion approach is the quickest way to extinguish a behavior. But as children grow, I think physical discipline becomes less and less appropriate. There are other ways of disciplining your children. Admittedly, they take a lot more effort on the part of the parent than simply spanking your kid into compliance. But there are other ways.

I would also say that spanking does not instill self-discipline and I think the goal of all parentally-directed discipline should be to move the child to higher levels of self-discipline. I honestly cannot see how spanking does that.


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23 Nov 2012, 4:48 pm

nessa238 wrote:
I would go so far as to say that a lot of society's problems today are directly due to parents not disciplining their children enough.

I raised my two kids without ever disciplining them in any way. I never hit them ever. I never yelled. No time outs, or angry faces. No shame. NO RULES. One is a lawyer, and the other is a successful artist. They are both married and infinitely more cozy and comfortable in this world than their father... who was the custodial parent. I read the book by A.S. Neil Summerhill when it came out... and it enlightened me, and helped me separate myself from my father's angry disappointment about me.

Children don't need to be taught to follow rules. They do what their parents do. Do dog trainers smack the dogs they are training? It doesn't work. The dog just fears you FOREVER... but it still needs and depends on you to keep them alive. Just like a child. Kids are little. I say (now) that I "tricked" them into "obeying." But I wasn't afraid of messes. I didn't worry about making them pick up or do chores. I NEVER asked them to bring this or do that. So many families think that their children need to learn to do what they are told... like little servants, or soldiers. They think the world is going to treat them badly if they dont obey commands from adults. What b/s. I taught my kids to read...we taught our kids to read, and when they got to school they flourished. My oldest kid came home from school when she was a junior in high school first semester and said, "Im finished with high school. I want to go to college... and she did... and went on to post grad degrees.

And I let them draw on the walls of their own rooms... and they covered them with "art." ... then we would paint and spackel, and they would start all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School


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23 Nov 2012, 5:27 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
http://current.com/green/89711259_kenyan-elephants-smack-their-young.htm

Apparently dolphins do something similar too. Both animals are highly intelligent, dolphins have bigger brains than humans comparably.

Elephants can beat humans in intelligence tests http://news.discovery.com/animals/eleph ... 10307.html

Therefore it's very hard to use the reasoning that it's our intelligence that separates us from the animals and therefore we don't do things that animals do because we are intelligent humans.

There is a very big difference between smacking and beating/abuse. I have heard many adults say they were smacked as a child and it did them no harm, and they are even of the opinion that it helped their behaviour.

Someone else on this thread took the words out of my mouth about the lioness cuffing her cubs when they go too far, this is an example I have always quoted.

Rather than imagining we are so superior to the remainder of the animals on this planet, we should respect that we are animals too, and have some humility in the face of nature.


And chimpanzees eat their own poop.

It's "natural," but I'm not doing it.


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23 Nov 2012, 8:48 pm

I was spanked repeatedly. My dad disciplined and beat the crap out of me to the point I was sent to the emergency room several times. So the theory in the original post is seriously lacking.

Next theory please.



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23 Nov 2012, 8:50 pm

Cash__ wrote:
I was spanked repeatedly. My dad disciplined and beat the crap out of me to the point I was sent to the emergency room several times. So the theory in the original post is seriously lacking.

The original poster believes that a child can be hit "correctly."


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23 Nov 2012, 9:40 pm

MrXxx wrote:
My apologies to the concept of free speech. This thread should not be locked. Yet.

To be perfectly honest, I locked the silly thing because it riled me. Both sides of this riled me. And I thought for sure this was bound to turn into a flame war.

It may still, in which case it probably will get locked, but it doesn't have to.

I come down in the middle of this to be honest.

Spanking is not child abuse if it is done correctly, but this theory is just ridiculous IMO.

Also, the source study cited wasn't about spanking. It was about the effects of harsh corporal punishment. Not simple corporal punishment. They aren't talking about simple spankings. Spankings when done correctly are not harsh.

That enough from me. The thread is now unlocked.

Carry on.
I completely disagree. Hitting a child is always wrong. There is always a better option.



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24 Nov 2012, 1:54 am

tall-p wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I would go so far as to say that a lot of society's problems today are directly due to parents not disciplining their children enough.

I raised my two kids without ever disciplining them in any way. I never hit them ever. I never yelled. No time outs, or angry faces. No shame. NO RULES. One is a lawyer, and the other is a successful artist. They are both married and infinitely more cozy and comfortable in this world than their father... who was the custodial parent. I read the book by A.S. Neil Summerhill when it came out... and it enlightened me, and helped me separate myself from my father's angry disappointment about me.

Children don't need to be taught to follow rules. They do what their parents do. Do dog trainers smack the dogs they are training? It doesn't work. The dog just fears you FOREVER... but it still needs and depends on you to keep them alive. Just like a child. Kids are little. I say (now) that I "tricked" them into "obeying." But I wasn't afraid of messes. I didn't worry about making them pick up or do chores. I NEVER asked them to bring this or do that. So many families think that their children need to learn to do what they are told... like little servants, or soldiers. They think the world is going to treat them badly if they dont obey commands from adults. What b/s. I taught my kids to read...we taught our kids to read, and when they got to school they flourished. My oldest kid came home from school when she was a junior in high school first semester and said, "Im finished with high school. I want to go to college... and she did... and went on to post grad degrees.

And I let them draw on the walls of their own rooms... and they covered them with "art." ... then we would paint and spackel, and they would start all over again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School



Wow, back then that be considered bad parenting because you had to be yelling and screaming at your kids and calling them names and hitting to be a good parent or else you were spoiling them. Now today it's the opposite.


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24 Nov 2012, 3:57 am

Well i got a good spanking when i deserved it!..and it never done me any harm :lol:
I don't think that my brain power shrunk because of that :lol:
I am one of those people that feel a smack when deserved not too hard! does no harm at all..in fact it helped me become a decent guy and i would never say that smacking is wrong.
Too many people claim that it's abuse when it's not..only when it gets past the smacking and taken to the extreme..and i think most parents would never do that to a child!

All of my family got a good smack when they were really naughty and they all are well balanced people..i think there is no link between smacking and the brain getting smaller :lol: :lol: :lol:



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24 Nov 2012, 4:58 am

How to span the "correct" way. Don't hit them out of anger, don't hit them every time they do something wrong. Always give them verbal warnings first, try other approaches and if those don't work, then spanking is the last on your list. I doubt parents like spanking their kids.


I think when people hear about spankings, they picture beatings or think parents hit their kids out of anger or never try any other approaches first and they think that is what they do often is hit their kids and never do anything else for discipline. Plus you hear horror stories about parents beating their kids and those are not spankings.


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24 Nov 2012, 5:52 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
And chimpanzees eat their own poop. It's "natural," but I'm not doing it.


If you've ever eaten or drunk anything with probiotics in it then you virtually have, where do you think they get those bacteria from? I saw a programme on it. And that's from other people's poo, not your own.

It's all very well laughing at what animals do, but nature gave them those instincts for a reason, and it's our sterilised, unnatural society today that is the cause of so many allergies and other conditions.

However, this is totally distracting from the point.


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24 Nov 2012, 5:59 am

whirlingmind wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And chimpanzees eat their own poop. It's "natural," but I'm not doing it.


If you've ever eaten or drunk anything with probiotics in it then you virtually have, where do you think they get those bacteria from? I saw a programme on it. And that's from other people's poo, not your own.

It's all very well laughing at what animals do, but nature gave them those instincts for a reason, and it's our sterilised, unnatural society today that is the cause of so many allergies and other conditions.

However, this is totally distracting from the point.


No, I've never eaten my own poo.

But you're more than welcome to if it makes you feel more "natural."


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24 Nov 2012, 6:32 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And chimpanzees eat their own poop. It's "natural," but I'm not doing it.


If you've ever eaten or drunk anything with probiotics in it then you virtually have, where do you think they get those bacteria from? I saw a programme on it. And that's from other people's poo, not your own.

It's all very well laughing at what animals do, but nature gave them those instincts for a reason, and it's our sterilised, unnatural society today that is the cause of so many allergies and other conditions.

However, this is totally distracting from the point.


No, I've never eaten my own poo.

But you're more than welcome to if it makes you feel more "natural."


You clearly didn't read what I wrote. Never mind, if it makes you happy to intentionally misread and misquote people's posts, be my guest. :roll:


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24 Nov 2012, 8:23 am

I was spanked as a child. Made me who I am today. Autistic. Although I treasure the person I am and admit it made me tougher, claiming it's a good thing just seems barbaric to me.



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24 Nov 2012, 8:37 am

Coastt wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
My apologies to the concept of free speech. This thread should not be locked. Yet.

To be perfectly honest, I locked the silly thing because it riled me. Both sides of this riled me. And I thought for sure this was bound to turn into a flame war.

It may still, in which case it probably will get locked, but it doesn't have to.

I come down in the middle of this to be honest.

Spanking is not child abuse if it is done correctly, but this theory is just ridiculous IMO.

Also, the source study cited wasn't about spanking. It was about the effects of harsh corporal punishment. Not simple corporal punishment. They aren't talking about simple spankings. Spankings when done correctly are not harsh.

That enough from me. The thread is now unlocked.

Carry on.
I completely disagree. Hitting a child is always wrong. There is always a better option.


And you are free to express your opinion, just as we all are. This topic appears regularly, and I've never seen anyone at either side convinced of the other's opinions.

Kind of makes me wonder why bother. :shrug:


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