A conspiracy theory about Hans Asperger

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theprisoner
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06 Nov 2021, 1:16 pm

Eugenics is nothing new. It was very popular back then. In all western nations.


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Fnord
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06 Nov 2021, 6:58 pm

babybird wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Post-and-run trollery has no place on WrongPlanet.
Yeah I'm not too keep on hit and runners...
It would not surprise me if the OP was cackling with glee over having upset our poor Joe90.



nick007
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06 Nov 2021, 11:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
babybird wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Post-and-run trollery has no place on WrongPlanet.
Yeah I'm not too keep on hit and runners...
It would not surprise me if the OP was cackling with glee over having upset our poor Joe90.
That very well may be true but I don't think triggering Joe was his intent. Joe seemed to be the only reply who was triggered by this thread & creating an accout & posting this thread in the hopes that she specifically would read it & be triggered is a big stretch. Perhaps he was hoping to trigger a lot more of us & his plan barely worked. Or perhaps he was hoping to get us angry at Nazis or Germans in general for some reason like maybe he was a poster who got in some trouble in PPR for hating on Germans IDK


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06 Nov 2021, 11:42 pm

Ettina wrote:
Clearly you haven't read any of Asperger's work. He made the point that what he called "autistic psychopathy" (essentially "autistic personality disorder" in more modern terminology) came with talents and strengths, and there's a definite undertone of "don't kill these ones, they're useful". He was trying to save us, not get us killed.


I'm aware of that, but what he actually did was have a scale of which people to
1) reform,
2) send to asylums, or
3) send to gas chambers immediately.

The reason he believed that some patients could be "reformed" was because he saw potential uses in our (relative) introversive tendencies and static behavioural patterns. For example, he believed and saw evidence that certain patients, once reformed, could be of great use to the Reich. I'm not allowed to post links as a new user, but Citation 15 on his Wikipedia page has an English translation of his works.

Therefore, he wasn't trying to necessarily save us. At the most, he was trying to protect some of us from being executed, and that was only because he thought they would benefit the Nazi Reich.

Please do more research the next time. I don't mean to offend you by "outsmarting" you, but this is simply a fact.

Also
Fnord wrote:
Post-and-run trollery has no place on WrongPlanet.

babybird wrote:
Yeah I'm not too keep on hit and runners...

Please don't call me a hit-and-runner. I actually used to have an account on this forum called MistDragonsong, and this is just my new account because there have been alt-right trolls tracking and targeting said account. I actually forgot about WrongPlanet for a while, and just created this account.

Thank you all if you took your time to read this.



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07 Nov 2021, 1:58 am

I don't think the OP is a troll and I don't think he was intending on triggering me, but I do wish people would stop starting threads on nazis executing autistics. It makes me hate having Asperger's even more than I do now...if that's a possibility. And to have a brain disorder NAMED after a nazi is just shameful and undignifying. I mean, how would you feel if you had a disorder named Hitler's syndrome? Even if Adolf Hitler himself didn't discover it and just happened to be some guy with the same surname, it still would be degrading.

I really wish they'd change Asperger's to Social Communication Sensory Disorder, or SCSD. At least ADHD isn't named after some nazi with an ugly surname that British people can't even pronounce without making it sound so cringing.

From now on, whenever somebody brings up the sh***y diagnosis (Asperger's) to me I'm going to say that the word offends me because of it being named after a nazi. Hopefully if I do get diagnosed with ADHD I can tell everyone I have that instead and it will be less embarrassing.


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hurtloam
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07 Nov 2021, 6:04 am

Now that you mention it Joe, my friend's daughter was diagnosed with LLD (Language Learning Disorder)

Learning Language Disorders



babybird
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07 Nov 2021, 7:34 am

Game2Winter wrote:

Also
Fnord wrote:
Post-and-run trollery has no place on WrongPlanet.

babybird wrote:
Yeah I'm not too keen on hit and runners...

Please don't call me a hit-and-runner.


I didn't


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07 Nov 2021, 7:49 am

Joe90 wrote:
Ah - but what do you mean by "low-functioning" and "severe"? I thought there was no such thing as functioning labels or severity on the autism spectrum.

So really, there is such a thing as severity on the spectrum, it's just so many Aspies deny this until they need to explain severity/functioning differences then it exists again.


It's more complicated than that.

There certainly is variety in how autism affects people, and this can result in some autistic people needing more support/having more difficulty functioning than others.

However, this variety is often oversimplified in two ways, both associated with the common usage of functioning labels. Firstly, some people oversimplify autism as two categories - high functioning and low functioning. Alternatively, if they realize there's no hard-and-fast line between the two groups, they might see autism as a linear scale from higher to lower functioning.

Both of these are oversimplifications. In comparison to person A, person B could be higher functioning by one measure and lower functioning by another measure.

For example, imagine these two hypothetical autistic people:

Bob learned to talk at age 3. As he grew, his language skills caught up and eventually became a strength, but it's become clear that he's got some cognitive disability, with an IQ tested at 68 and academic abilities on par with IQ. He's socially awkward but friendly. He isn't bothered by eye contact, but he doesn't really know how much eye contact is considered normal, so he sometimes avoids eye contact and sometimes makes too much eye contact. He was a lot slower to learn self-care skills, but he's benefitted from getting life skills training, and now, in adulthood, he lives in his own apartment and works as a shelver at the local grocery store. He does still need his parents' help when he runs into unexpected problems, and his parents regularly remind him to do things like pay his bills.

Tim never could talk. His mouth simply wouldn't do what he wanted it to. His hands have the same problem, making complex motor movements difficult, but in his mid-teens he finally figured out how to type on a keyboard, and immediately began typing complex, communicative sentences. His IQ was initially believed to be very low, but with his newfound communication ability, he was reassessed to have an IQ of 136. Still, he is unable to dress himself or do many other basic self-care activities. He wears diapers because he usually can't tell when he needs to pee or poop in time before his body just decides to do it for him. He will never be able to function without a caregiver looking after him 24/7, but with that support, and a text-to-speech device, he's completed an undergraduate degree in university, and is now a graduate student and teaching a class of undergraduates.

Are Bob and Tim high functioning or low functioning? Which one is higher functioning than the other? By IQ definition, Bob is mid-to-low functioning, Tim is high functioning. By support needs, Bob is mid-to-high functioning, Tim is low functioning. By verbal communication, Bob is high functioning, Tim is low functioning. By written communication, Tim is high functioning, Bob is mid-to-low functioning.

To make things more complicated, not all autistic people are consistent in skill level. Many verbal autistic people go nonverbal at times, sometimes related to stress or overload or sometimes for no apparent reason. Many autistic people also experience fluctuations in ability to do lots of other activities - for example, if I get too hungry, I get inertia that, among other things, makes me pretty much unable to prepare a meal for myself. (Even fetching myself a bottle of Ensure is difficult in that state.)

So it's not that autistic people don't vary in abilities. In fact, it's the opposite - we vary too much, and functioning level is at best a crude approximation of the variation among autistic people.



kraftiekortie
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07 Nov 2021, 8:00 am

Autistic people run the gamut. Ettina presented a very illustrative post.

Asperger didn’t join the Nazi Party…..but at the very least he was complicit in the murder of some “low-functioning” people. The most that can be said about him is that he “colluded” with the Nazis.

Having Asperger’s Syndrome is not like having leprosy. To present it as something that’s “devastating” is utter hyperbole.



Joe90
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07 Nov 2021, 9:15 am

Quote:
Bob learned to talk at age 3. As he grew, his language skills caught up and eventually became a strength, but it's become clear that he's got some cognitive disability, with an IQ tested at 68 and academic abilities on par with IQ. He's socially awkward but friendly. He isn't bothered by eye contact, but he doesn't really know how much eye contact is considered normal, so he sometimes avoids eye contact and sometimes makes too much eye contact. He was a lot slower to learn self-care skills, but he's benefitted from getting life skills training, and now, in adulthood, he lives in his own apartment and works as a shelver at the local grocery store. He does still need his parents' help when he runs into unexpected problems, and his parents regularly remind him to do things like pay his bills.

Tim never could talk. His mouth simply wouldn't do what he wanted it to. His hands have the same problem, making complex motor movements difficult, but in his mid-teens he finally figured out how to type on a keyboard, and immediately began typing complex, communicative sentences. His IQ was initially believed to be very low, but with his newfound communication ability, he was reassessed to have an IQ of 136. Still, he is unable to dress himself or do many other basic self-care activities. He wears diapers because he usually can't tell when he needs to pee or poop in time before his body just decides to do it for him. He will never be able to function without a caregiver looking after him 24/7, but with that support, and a text-to-speech device, he's completed an undergraduate degree in university, and is now a graduate student and teaching a class of undergraduates.

Are Bob and Tim high functioning or low functioning? Which one is higher functioning than the other? By IQ definition, Bob is mid-to-low functioning, Tim is high functioning. By support needs, Bob is mid-to-high functioning, Tim is low functioning. By verbal communication, Bob is high functioning, Tim is low functioning. By written communication, Tim is high functioning, Bob is mid-to-low functioning.


Bob sounds moderate-functioning. Tim sounds low-functioning, despite the IQ. If your autism-related difficulties are more obvious and your symptoms present themselves quite severely and you aren't so good at learning to mask your symptoms, you probably have a moderate or severe case of autism.
IQ doesn't always come into it, it's how you are able to communicate and how severe your symptoms are and how much support you need that defines where abouts you are on the spectrum.

Take me, for example. I'm high-functioning. I had no milestone delays as a baby, made normal eye contact from birth, was a socially articulate child, went to mainstream school, graduated, got a driver's license, got a job, now I'm in a relationship with an NT and you wouldn't really guess I had an ASD unless you were told. Despite a few difficulties I had finding a job and the struggles my anxiety brings I still consider myself very high-functioning.

I guess it's one of those things that's easier if you look at the big picture rather than breaking it down into small details. I looked at Bob and Tim's overall functioning on average.


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08 Nov 2021, 1:41 am

In my experience very few people have any idea of what autism even is, excluding people who work in medical & psych fields & psych patients. People tend to think of autism as a less sever form of mental retardation or something like Rain Man. Much fewer people have heard of Aspergers Syndrome, let alone know the person who diagnosed it & probably much fewer know that Hans Asperger was a Nazi or working for the Nazis. I have Aspergers myself & I didn't even know about Has Nazi connection before reading this thread. I'm concerned about people thinking of me as mentally ret*d because of my autism diagnoses & autism symptoms instead of people thinking of me as a Nazi because I have a disorder that was named after one. If I were afraid of people thinking I was a Nazi, it would be because I'm white & live in a country that hates minority races instead of having any concern about having a disorder named after a Nazi.


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Technic1
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09 Nov 2021, 5:08 pm

Hitler had Aspergers. They experimented on aspies to see how they work.



Ettina
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09 Nov 2021, 7:18 pm

Technic1 wrote:
Hitler had Aspergers. They experimented on aspies to see how they work.


Hitler had excellent social skills. He's one of the most charismatic and persuasive speakers the world has ever seen, it's how he got the power he did. I doubt he was on the spectrum.



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09 Nov 2021, 8:16 pm

Ettina wrote:
Technic1 wrote:
Hitler had Aspergers. They experimented on aspies to see how they work.


Hitler had excellent social skills. He's one of the most charismatic and persuasive speakers the world has ever seen, it's how he got the power he did. I doubt he was on the spectrum.


According to WP everyone's on the spectrum. Even Paris Hilton.


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13 Nov 2021, 3:36 am

Ettina wrote:
Technic1 wrote:
Hitler had Aspergers. They experimented on aspies to see how they work.


Hitler had excellent social skills. He's one of the most charismatic and persuasive speakers the world has ever seen, it's how he got the power he did. I doubt he was on the spectrum.


Hitler learnt his social skills through training/practicing his speeches and through hypnosis ect

He was a genius Aspergers though…



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13 Nov 2021, 10:28 am

I just don't understand why we insist on calling it Asperger Syndrome. Most of the research was done by Lorna Wing in the 1980s. If we want to bring something like that category back into the fold, call it Wing's Syndrome or something. She was the one who did all the heavy lifting, and she wasn't a Nazi.

All Hans Asperger did was be a Nazi child murderer and lie to cover it all up. f**k that guy.

(To your theory-- to be honest, I doubt it. The study of history is full of sensationalism and misinformation, but my current understanding is that people with Autism may have been targeted by Hitler for being disabled or, on the higher end of the spectrum, for being "anti-social", but "Asperger's boys" were a few Autistic kids who liked science, who Asperger wanted to spare for that reason. The idea was that their technical skills would be useful for the Third Reich. But again, Asperger didn't invent Asperger's Syndrome. That was Lorna Wing.)


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