How come so many people here treat AS like a race/club?

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The problem with lot of schizophrenics is they don't know the are sick and they think everything they hear and see is real and they don't think they have anything wrong with them.

I mostly blame their families and their partners for refusing to get them help. Just because they are adults doesn't mean they can't force them into treatment because they are not capable making that decision to help themselves. My grandfather put his adult daughter in a mental hospital in 1997 and all my aunts and my uncle and my mother all thought it was best for their sister. She was there for four years and now she lives in a group home. Her husband divorced her because he could not handle her mental illness but he left his kids with her. I don't think she abused them but her son missed so much school staying home to take care of her and protect her he dropped out because he got so far behind. He even had to take care of his sister too like she was his child. But finally my mom's family did do something about it after years of trying to get her help. I dunno why they couldn't put her in a mental hospital before. Maybe because she wasn't severe enough?

Well there is a difference between stubbronly refusing to get help out of spite and to be a pain in the ass...and having the illness interfere with the ability, with schizophrenia I can think of a number of reasons other then that they might be resistant to treatment. Such as being too paranoid to trust the doctors or whatever......again not really something they can control or something that's their fault. Also I think if you look up most cases of parents murdering their children you will find most of those cases do NOT involve schizophrenia, though the media certainly likes to jump on the possibility that anyone who commits a terrible crime must have a mental illness as such. But yeah it is actually a misconception that people with schizophrenia are typically more violent then those without.

I think it is also important that family members try to be supportive, just trying to constantly force treatment on someone on account of the disorder interfering with their functioning regardless of how they feel. I mean I can understand forcing some treatment for someones own good...I mean for instance if I had a PTSD freak out and was a danger to myself or others I'd probably be glad in the end if I was stopped by the cops and taken to a psych ward or whatever in the end. However since I am not constantly in a PTSD freak out I would not want to be treated as totally in-capable of having an opinion on what helps me and medications pushed on me regardless of side effects because they decide the side effects must not be real but I'm just delusional. So though I see your point there has to be some involvement of the patient in their treatment.......this kind of depends on severity as well though and what state of mind one is in at the moment. Difficult issue anyways.

Perceiving your AS as a disease is another extreme - a direct opposite to vieweing it a superior race. Accepting AS as a disease may not be much of an insult, but it carries with itself a huge package of consequences. If you concede to the notion of having a lifelong disease, the society won't see you as equal. And equal you do want to be! If you tell me you don't, it's a lie. So, no, AS is not a disease. But it's not a race/club either.

If you treat your Aspieness as membership in an elite club or a superior race, you're fooling yourself, primarily because the bulk of the society won't take you seriously and still perceive you as a mentally ill.

If you treat your Aspieness as a mental illess indeed, you're confirming to the general society what they already believe you are.

The best attitude, I believe, is to acknowledge your Aspieness as a personal challenge and work hard on overcoming its symptoms; in other words, act NT in the NT society.

I think it is a disease in the sense that technically the term disorder fits under the blanket term disease, but it is not really a disease according to the common use of the word disease. Disorder is a more appropriate term for something like AS...I don't see why having a disorder is reason to not be seen as equal......reason to be seen as different maybe but what is so wrong with that. Society needs to learn to quit sucking so much anyways.

Also why should someone not be taken seriously just because they have a mental illness, strike two for society.

And I acknowledge that I have aspergers, but I feel instead of trying to overcome it all the time it is ok to accept that I have limits and be more careful not to constantly push myself too far like I did for so long in my life I'm already pretty burnt out and don't know if that's going to change. If society has a problem with that........it's societies problem.

A lot depends on what your goals in life are. If you are single and looking for a soulmate to start a family, you don't want to overemphasize your being a disorder carrier. You don't want a potential dating/marriage partner to know that Aspieness is "part of who you are". If you are already married and have kids, remember that sooner or later they will be on the dating scene, and you don't want your kids to be at disadvantage because of the community's knowledge of their father's mental disorder. If you're starting a career, or looking for growth in the one you already have, you don't want your potential or actual employers/customers to perceive you as mentally unstable.
The tendency of the existing neurotypical soceity is to perceive people with ASD as ret*ds or mentally ill. Whether you project yourself as a proud member of the elite Aspie league or as a person with disability, the general society will perefer the latter. The only way to avoid being labeled as such is to leave your Aspieness for your individual use (if you need it so badly) and to project yourself to the society as a normal person.

Actually if I was intrested in finding a potential dating/marrige partner I would certainly want them to know about my 'aspieness' being part of who I am as well as the other disorders and how those effect me or could potentially effect me. That way I don't have to pretend like I'm a normal function person and have things fall apart when the dating/marrige partner realizes I was not being honest and cannot deal with someone that has the sort of issues I do.

Also I think potential employers/customers should be more tolerant of the fact some people have mental disorders, then expecting them to use all their energy hiding it because otherwise they'll be scorned and fired. I mean is any of this supposed to make me want to be more involved with society? it just convinces me even more that I want no part of it.

Why should those of us with mental disorders hide the way we are and live in fear of judgement from society? I mean why should societies intolerance for anyone who's different be accommodated by the mentally disordered? These are the sorts of questions this brings up. I mean I used to try and fit in only to get ostracized and picked on because I couldn't live up to their standards no matter how I tried...so I should do that some more and see how much further I can get beat down for being 'abnormal'.

I've always been wishy-washy on the "autism needs to be cured" debate. Would I give up my autism card if I could? I'm not sure. I've spent a lot of time and heartache learning to love who I am, and as much as I hate the pain that comes with autism, I wouldn't want to change the way I thought about things, the things I value.

I didn't understand how heated the cure debates really were until I watched a couple of documentaries about deaf people, and saw that they have a community, a "deaf culture", and a lot of them are adamantly against curing deafness, even to go so far as to refuse cochlear implants and other aids for their deaf children.

If I was deaf, would I want to be cured? Absolutely. But then, I think about what if I had grown up deaf? What if I'd gone through depression and suicide attempts figuring out who I was, and ultimately learned to love myself as a deaf person? Would I be so quick to cure myself then?

Interesting! I think that's a better analogy than the one I was drawing with gender to illustrate my point. It's basically a theory of mind deficit, isn't it? It seems absolutely ludicrous to me that someone would choose to miss out on all sound. And denying that to children, who cannot make their own choice, makes my blood boil! But it does not surprise me. That's the way the human mind works - or, rather, malfunctions.

Last edited by FMX on 22 May 2012, 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, I find it hard to say "I am just different, you NT people should leave me alone to be me.." In truth, my challenges cause me several different forms of grief, not limited to loneliness or sadness..
This whole be "Proud of your AS " thing seems too weird to me. While I am no longer ashamed of who or what I am, its also important to realize that autism has stolen a lot of happiness from my life.
Certainly I am who I am, but there are things I could do better and not all efforts to help are some effort to squeeze me into the NT "Mold" but are things that could help me find some enjoyment/meaning in my life.
Just saying..

Sincerely,
Matthew
PS.
Plus it adds fuel to those who are newly dx'd but are in denial.

I recommend the documentary "Sound and Fury".

Of course, debating who's life sucks more is even more counterproductive than the grandiose view.
Challenges that need to be overcome? Yes, I can live with that idea.
I have found a few ASD people here who seem to doubt anyone who was not dxed when they were 5 by some specialist here, but I must say they are not a majority. I have found recently, a few who seem pretty severe trying to use all this as a reason to throw out all ASDs in their efforts at denial..
Hmm, I think I can summarize my current thoughts/feelings about this:

1) Next step in Evolution, or different & better. Seriously????
2) A God Awful curse! We should never have been born with such a terrible disease! Depressing..
3) Different, with some serious challenges. But trying the best as we can. My current thinking that this is the best way to view it.

Sincerely,
Matthew

The decision about what to disclose and what to keep to yourself varies from person to person; it's not one-size-fits-all. What I wrote is based on my personal experience and my personal condition. I don't think my behavioral differences would jeopardize a relationship once it has been already established. But being open about suspecting AS could very well derail a potential for a not-yet-existing relationship. I haven't been officially diagnosed as of now (and that's one of the reasons why); but even if I was, I would not disclose it too early. As for whether to reveal it to the partner (and at what point) - it depends on the individual's personal situation.



Yes, they should be more tolerant, but, unfortunately, not all of them are. And everyone - Aspie or not - needs a job, which is not very easy to find during bad economy.



Again, it depends on how serious you condition is, and whether you're capable of performing the required duties if hired. Of course, if you feel that you're either unable to do the job, or it would cause you too much discomfort, then you could rightfully question whether or not the position is worth your effort. But if it's all about having your personality "accepted" by the hiring manager/boss (which is too often being the case), then I would discourage you from allowing your AS to pigeonhole you.



If you have reached a peace of mind about living with this disorder and accepting its limitations for the rest of your life, then, of course, there's no reason to live in fear of judgement from the society. If you're not demanding too much from the society, then the society should not (and does not) demand too much from you. But if you believe that you are capable (with extra efforts, of course) to earn the acceptance by the general society (at all levels - work, relationship, etc.) that most NT people take for granted, then, I believe, the goal is worth the effort.

Well honestly I still do kind of, though its not so much the judgement itself but what people might do because of having the judgement. I never really even demanded anything from society I was alienated from it at a fairly early age and that's only increased. Also believe what you want but I think I'd be incapable of that even if I tried, and honestly I gave up on societies acceptance a long time ago. But anyways I don't want a romantic relationship or kids anyways.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

Why an IQ of 50 however? Does your personal definition of disability differ that much from the official definition(s)?

As for people with untreated or treated ADHD not being disabled in general(?), I disagree with that.

I don't know about severe ADHD but with just moderate ADHD, there are plenty of opportunities to accidentally harm yourself or even die which mean survival isn't exactly guaranteed if literally left on your own;

it requires someone to take care of you in daily life even if you're doing very well with both self-help and adaptive skills in terms of your impairment (you know, against those claims of oh-so-smart people that you're too impaired to do whatever and shouldn't try hard) due to the pronounced hyperactivity and impulsivity coupled with a gross learning impairment (despite an average or high IQ) that puts your ability to pay attention and take information in as well as process them in real time on the level of someone with a borderline or mild intellectual disability. That part does suck, I guess.

As the educational definition of disabilities and identification of special needs is along that line, I consider ADHD a disorder that can be disabling.

The thing is that antipsychotics are not safe; they have serious sideffects like a decrease I'm cognitive functioning. There is reasons to not want to take them besides pride.