anthropologist from mars wonders how humans date each other

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I would posit the Lydians (although non-Greek) were hellenised to the point they were considered part of the Greek empire. Up to the Ottoman empire the people of the Anatolian peninsular were always considered part of Europe.

You poor thing. You are SO badly informed, and SO wrong. Lol!

The boundry line between Europe and Asia is nowhere near Iran. Please grasp that.

It is the Bosporus. That narrow waterway that connects the Aegean to the Black Sea, and seperates most of modern Turkey (the main part in Asia) from that little Piece of modern Turkey in Europe that borders Greece and Bulgaria. That point where the two continents almost touch (and where two Persian emperors build pontoon bridges to invade Greece). That narrow waterway has been the recognized boundry line for twenty five centuries or more.

The city of Istanbul, founded on the European side three thousand years ago, straddles both continents because it straddles boths sides of the narrow Bosporus now.

Anatolia, what is now Turkey, was considered to be "Asia" by the ancient Greeks, and thats why the named the region "Asia Minor". Palestine, Syria, Mesopotamia etc were all "Asia" to the ancient Greeks as well.

There was no "Greek Empire" until the fueding city states were united by Alexander the Great after the golden age of classical Greece- when the Greeks were just a bunch of feuding city-states. The peoples of what is now Turkey were non Greeks and therefore "Barbarians" to the classical Greeks.

Look at the map. The natural boundry between Europe in Asia starts with Aegean sea, then goes north through the Bosporus, and then is the Black Sea. South of the Black sea, and east of the Agean and Bosporus is Turkey- Asia.

West of the Agean is Greece, and the whole rest of Europe. North of the Black Sea is the European part of Russia (the part north of Caucasus, and west of the Ural Mountains. Natural.

As I explained before the reason you conflate "Asian" with "Persian" is because the Greeka fought the Persians, and the Persians had a VAST empire that included all of what is now Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and Israel Palestine.

And the Persians conscipted peoples from all over that empire to beef up their invading Armies against Greece. Hence the references by the Greeks to how "Xerxes bringing the forces of all of Asia down on us!".

And the Persians used Turkey as their springboard to invade into Greece. Hense the needs to "cross the Bosporus".

You are too quick to believe in the whole "Asia Minor" thing. The Bosphorus was considered a historically recent divide between Asia and Europe to indicate the presence of the Ottomans who considered central asiatic. Infact that border wasn't where the Ottomons stopped as they occupied much of the balkans for centuries. Using your logic Greece should be part of Asia.

There has been some debate in historical circles whether pre-Ottoman Anatolia shouldn't be considered part of Europe,
The earliest Indo-European tribes. Together with the Proto-Tocharians, who migrated eastward, the Anatolian peoples constituted the first known waves of Indo-European emigrants out of the Eurasian steppe. It is likely that they reached Anatolia from the north, via the Balkans or the Caucasus, in the 3rd millennium BC. There have been multiple Indo-European tribes who occupied Anatolia before during and after the Greeks. In addition to numerous Greek settlers there were millions of Armenians and Kurds who in ancient times were not the same people they are today. Even the non-Indo-European peoples were genetically related to other people in the region. It was not until the modern Turks arrived with the Ottomans that central Asians actually entered the region.

The proof is DNA, the average Anatolian Turk is closer genetically to their Greek and Balkan neighbors than to central Asians.

None of this has anything to do with it. Seriously nothing.

Instead of DNA you could use language.

Linquistically the Turks are more like Central Asians. While inguistically Iranians (who speak an Indoeuropean language) are closer to the Greeks, and to the rest of Europe including Britain than they are to the Turks. So by your logic- if you go by language -Turkey would be Asian, but then Asia would STOP, and Europe would start again at Iran.

Or you could use religion . Turkey is an Islamic country, and Greece is majority Greek Orthodox Christian. Making Turkey Asia, and Greece Europe.

But none of that, DNA, language, or religion, matters.

What matters is the natural features on the map. There is no natural boundry at the modern political boundry between eastern Turkey and western Iran to indicate a continental divide.

Look at a map. There is the Aegean Sea. To the west is Greece, and the rest of Europe. To the east is Turkey, aka "Asia Minor". And the rest of Asia.

At the top of the Aegean is the tiny sea of Marmara, and the Bosporous. Then you enter the Black sea. The Black Sea and the Aegean are the natural divide between Europe and Asia. Simple. End of discussion.

The peoples of modern Anatolia, like the Armenians and Kurds are considered "Asian". Middle Eastern. Not "European".

The maps you are referring to are actually copied from Turkish map makers. I'm not sure if you know but the Piri Reis map is a world map compiled in 1513 by the Ottoman admiral and cartographer Piri Reis and is one of the oldest known predating anything produced by Colombus or Venetian explorers.

The Seljuq and Ottoman Turks did consider their culture to be part of Asia so it played into the whole theme of the Bosphorus being the arbitrary demarcation line.

Therefore your snapshot of time in relation to identity of peoples of Anatolia is post-Ottoman. The Kurds of ancient times were called Mittani in Anatolia and as with the ancient ancestors of the Persians were Indo-European speakers who's culture was closest to the Scythians who were the largest group of European horseman in the steppe. They, the Armenians and the celtic Galatians of that period were not subject to invasion or intermixing with later Turkish invaders. The Scythians were described by the Greeks as red haired and blue/green eyes.

The identity of the people of Anatolia is very complex, During the time of the eastern Roman empire anatolia was very definitely part of Europe. For example the great Byzantine emperors were European and considered the people and lands of Anatolia part of their empire.

^^^can one of you please give me a clue as to how dating works or how people get together?

I think the biggest discovery I made in my 20s was that you can walk up to a woman and talk to her and what is the worst she is going to do?

Just talk to them Blabs. Strike up a conversation, If they laugh at you or get angry then just shrug your shoulders and move on to the next one. I mean it;s not like you made them that way? they were already stuck up.

You do it often enough and you'll find one who will date you.

done that here and there over the last 40 years or so and got at best a cold shoulder. but i watch people [including the ones who rejected me], and they get together with other men and mysterious words are spoken and next thing i know they exchange numbers or just walk off together. like a cat watching a human use a doorknob. there is something about my persona that turns them off. not only women but men as well, face to face. there is another poster here on WP who has the female version of this, she said that something about herself turns men off. dunno. in the army a social worker advised me that all western women were basically that way, it is our culture itself that i'm at cross-purposes with. out of all these people, there was precisely one woman who was not like this in my life [outside of kinfolk] who literally jumped into my lap, then found out i was basically un-mateable and left me for another. she said that there could not be two addled people in this relationship, one of us had to be normal.

My philosophy is nothing gained nothing lost. The trick is not to lose confidence in yourself just because these women don't show any interest. I know 40 years is a long time but there's no harm using what you have learned to find a female friend.

it is just that at my age a lot of damage has been done that seems not fixable. but at the end of my life at least i want to know what exact secret procedures i missed, in detail, so that perhaps in my next life i can do better. this IS akin to "rocket science" to me even if it is child's play for everybody else.

I think it's really organic in how one connects with another person. When it happens you'll know. Take it from me, it's really really hard to pretend (although there are schmucks out there who scam girls to get into their pants who are good at acting).

Kind of like a bolt of lightning. Electro static charges. Ho antural., How organic. I guess when you so shocked, buzzed, fried, from it, you can't explain it. Cause you're scatterbrained. Or delirious. Or drunk off love. That's when you know it's real. Kind of like a bolt of lightning.

Last edited by theprisoner on 11 Feb 2022, 5:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

I mean from what I gather there's Aspie guys on WP who are going through lots of NT women so it might not be bolt lightning. However, I was a good looking NT and I could barely scrape a date.

"The maps I am referring to" are any regular modern map you see today in National Geographic, on the globe, on Google. Regular modern maps. And the maps your middle school geography teacher used.

Jeeze! Get real dude!

Last edited by naturalplastic on 11 Feb 2022, 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

i'd rather get struck by that of lightning than the regular kind. i almost got the right kind of lightning strike once in my life, but it sputtered out.

Sorry I was talking about maps that designate east/west and Asia/Europe. Not geo-satellite maps,