Can very social people have their own social disadvantages?

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MoonShinePie
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13 Nov 2011, 5:34 pm

Do you think people with very social brains, can have their own set of social disadvantages?

I have aspergers. I know that I am not supposed to mention topics that are inappropriate/antisocial/controversial/taboo/offensive (like class etc). I don’t mean to offend anyone with my comment. I just want to vent my true honest feelings/experience, in a safer/more appropriate place. If you don’t want to hear what I am feeling right now, then don’t read it.

I used to know some people who considered themselves to be very social. They valued the quality of being social, and openly expressed it often, in front of me.
eg their relief that their children were "born naturally social"
eg their frustration at the people they spoke with that week that "had no social skills"
eg their opinion that if their doctor had not spent so much time studying instead of socialising, he would have "enough social skills"

It used to strike a nerve with me when people mentioned "social skills". I would not bring up how much I love running to a paraplegic person.

IMO there are all kinds of social skills, and few people are good at them all, whether one has a very social brain or AS. And people at the very social end of the unsocial-social spectrum, can have many of their own social weaknesses.
e.g. a very social person can be more prone to break the social rule "Don’t gossip too much". Not being able to conform to this social rule, can lead to being labelled as someone who no-ones reputation is safe with, and ostracism.
e.g. a very social person can be more easily lured into the wrong groups. (By feeling more fixated by the politics/purple circle of a group). Social people often don’t have the objectivity/logic to discern if a group is one that is clever to be part of (once one sees past the emotional attraction they feel towards the group). E.g. a social person can be more inspired by the melodrama of a large social baggage-filled extended family. And after years working their way to the top of that group, the social person can realise they have been permanently sucked into a group, that few people would want anything to do with. (And stuck there with 3 kids, and cooking eggs for a mechanic).

I would rather be at the bottom of a group that I was able to choose with my head, than be at the top of a group that not many would want to be part of.

I am sometimes described as shy, lacking social skills, or "stuck-up".
I am not shy, and whether I saw shyness as a weakness or not, I would always respect it.
I am aware that I have slightly less social intuition than average. And (fortunately) I AM also aware that I do have slightly more of some other good qualities than average.
I would rather be stuck up, than stuck down.



Moog
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13 Nov 2011, 6:07 pm

Moved from WPnet to GD


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anneurysm
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13 Nov 2011, 6:20 pm

I find that the more social one is, the more drama will fill their lives, since they meet more people...catty, gossip loving people included.

And, of course, the more people one is able to access, the more exclusionist and intolerant one is towards those of a lower "rank", including those with disabilities.


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daveydino
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13 Nov 2011, 6:25 pm

Shy people get taken advantage of.



dogslife
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13 Nov 2011, 7:35 pm

In my experience, extroverted (and thus, social) NTs are far more rude than introverted ones. Because they love socializing and that in and of itself comes naturally to them, so they don't have to consciously think about "social rules" like, say, those of us on the spectrum do. So often during their vast amount of socializing, they can be invasive or generally impolite - and not just in a way where they talk more so they have more chances to be.



Joe90
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15 Nov 2011, 2:08 pm

Sometimes extrovert NTs don't really care who they lose or upset because they know it is easier to make friends and they know they will always be liked by at least somebody. People seem to suck up to certain types of people as though this person can't do no wrong (which they do because nobody's perfect, but they can't seem to see anything wrong).

It's happened at work. There's a woman there who has favourites, and if you're one of her favourites, you will automatically like her back and won't ever see the faulty side of her. If you're not one of her favourites, you know it, and can't see anything good about her and you spend the rest of your life wondering what these people see in her, and if I ever fault her, everybody who she likes really sticks up for her and would never moan about her at all, as though she's some sort of perfect queen. But the people who aren't her favourites always knew exactly how I felt about her and so we would have a little moan about her together and would all see the same faults in her. She seems to gave this charm about her what only some people can see, depending on how much she likes you.


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Ai_Ling
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16 Nov 2011, 12:24 am

For very social people, I've known some. Well it always varies from person to person. I think very social people have this people pleasing urge, they want everyone to like them. Its a big deal when the one person doesn't. They get so caught up in so many people. They don't develop as many meaningful relationships.



jackbus01
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16 Nov 2011, 9:28 am

Yes, very extroverted people are at a significant disadvantage. The biggest disadvantage is that often form shallow superficial relationships because to them quantity is more important than quality. The other problem is that very extroverted people have a glaring lack of introspection and deep thought.
If you want to see extroversion gone wild then look at Facebook.
You can have hundreds of "friends"--very superficial relationships.
Any comment that can't be said in a sentence or two is tl;dr
Instead of discussions, you can "like" stuff.



jackbus01
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16 Nov 2011, 9:31 am

daveydino wrote:
Shy people get taken advantage of.


very true, that is why assertiveness is so important.



Moog
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16 Nov 2011, 9:34 am

dogslife wrote:
In my experience, extroverted (and thus, social) NTs are far more rude than introverted ones. Because they love socializing and that in and of itself comes naturally to them, so they don't have to consciously think about "social rules" like, say, those of us on the spectrum do. So often during their vast amount of socializing, they can be invasive or generally impolite - and not just in a way where they talk more so they have more chances to be.


Having good social skills can enable one to be rude and get away with it more easily.


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deconstruction
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16 Nov 2011, 11:21 am

I don't know many people who are very social, but I've observed that these people are often quite frustrated. I mean, frustrated with the constant drama, talking to others all the time... These people feel like they shouldn't be alone, ever, but constant socializing is often complicated for them, too.

I'm not saying all people should be like Aspies, but I found that the most beneficial option is to have a small circle of true friends. People who have it seem to be the most satisfied with their social lives.



Powerwindow
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16 Nov 2011, 12:04 pm

MoonShinePie wrote:

I used to know some people who considered themselves to be very social. They valued the quality of being social, and openly expressed it often, in front of me.
eg their relief that their children were "born naturally social"
eg their frustration at the people they spoke with that week that "had no social skills"
eg their opinion that if their doctor had not spent so much time studying instead of socialising, he would have "enough social skills"

It used to strike a nerve with me when people mentioned "social skills". I would not bring up how much I love running to a paraplegic person.



Just a question. Do people use "having social skills" as a word of acting extroverted (understood as: talking alot and being "acitve" insteed of reserved)? That seems wrong to me. :S (of course if it was right social skills could also mean other things.)

That offends me, because i am VERY quiet and reserved (but average "social" and non-autistic). So they imply i have a mistake and lack "social skills". You could say i am just calm, lowkey and cautios (introverted, non-active) and the opposite people are loud, wild and uninhibited (extroverted, active). Too be extroverted is not a "skill" or "intelligence" and introverted is not the lack of it. Its just (the two opposite) states. Then you could just say that introverted are people with the ability of "quietness-skills" or "calmness-skills", the ability to seem calm and deep or the ability to not talk too much, and extroverted people are the poor people mistakingly lacking those skills. I have met a person who was the most extroverted i have seen and some people complained about him. It was quiet annoying. You could'nt just be around him just a little moment and he would walk up too you and start saying random things all the time expecting you to doo the same without any situation behind it making it natural (sorry i am not english and i dont know how too formulate it properly in english) and overly-bold. It was hard for me beacuse i can't "talk just to talk". Then i "discovered" you counsiously had to avoid eyecontact with him like if he were'nt there and then he would'nt approach you (relief :)). And it was'nt just me. It was obvious compared to "normally extroverted" people and i heard others complain about it. I think both extreme introversion and extroversion can seem "wrong". There's the average people. And then some pretty introverted and some pretty extroverted (but more "pretty extroverted"). But there's alot more VERY introverted and alot less VERY exotroverted, making more too much (seeming wrong) introverted and few too much (seeming wrong) extroverted. That could be the explenation why introversion seems "wrong" to some, but not extroversion. But my point was: why is he then overly "socially skilled" and i apparantly "lack it" (it hurts me saying its a mistake. I personally like others that are the same way, i dont want them too get rid of that). Why not the opposite? Wich also as to doo with your message, that there is advantages of the unpopular way (skills?) and disadvantage of the popular way (lack of skills?), without people being aware of it.

But this got a bit too long. Hope i dont sidetrack the topic. My basic question was just the first question.

To the topic:

About breaking the rules and being rude. The difference between an aspie beeing rude and an NT extrovert being rude, is properly because it is to different types of "rudeness". The aspie has good intentions and dont WANT to be rude, but lack the social understanding to sometimes understand when something is rude and then it happens by a mistake. Some NT people dont try or care too much and then it still happens. Thats to different reasons.



MoonShinePie
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26 Nov 2011, 1:24 am

.. :hmph:



Last edited by MoonShinePie on 26 Nov 2011, 1:55 am, edited 4 times in total.

MoonShinePie
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26 Nov 2011, 1:31 am

Have never really looked at it in those ways before



Last edited by MoonShinePie on 26 Nov 2011, 1:53 am, edited 6 times in total.

MoonShinePie
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26 Nov 2011, 1:37 am

I think that each individual has their own idea of what "good social skills" are, at least to a degree.



Callista
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26 Nov 2011, 1:49 am

People with better social skills tend to have somewhat more difficulty understanding themselves and defining their own identity. They are so connected to others that they don't quite think of themselves as independent units, the way introverts do; and so they define themselves partly by their social stature and partly by what others think of them. Extroverts tend to be worse at understanding themselves, and better at understanding others. Introverts, on the other hand, are usually more self-aware and less aware of others.

That's not to say that socially adept people can't develop a good self-concept; they usually do, just like anyone does. It's just a bit more difficult for them.

It's all a trade-off, a difference in focus. Anyhow, I'd much rather have lots of different sorts of people in the world than all the same sort. The world's more interesting like this.


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