Social Intution and becoming more "Normal"

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This is as real as I get. I can't think of anywhere else to post this, but I would appreciate some input and support.

I was diagnosed with AS as a small child and clearly had the behaviours of a typical aspie for all of my childhood and teenage years. However, recent assessments I have done only hint at possible remnants of this disorder. The thing is, many of my behaviours seem normal in that I'm not impaired by them like others on the spectrum are. I have a wide circle of friends, can hold down jobs, and am able to socialize effectively in the world to get a variety of needs met. The way this illusion of "normality" was formed though, was through pushing myself and by learning these skills via unconventional means.

The topic of neuroplasticity has come up in many of my university psych lectures. For those who don't know, neuroplasticity refers to the fact that even if an area of the brain is damaged or faulty, other areas of the brain can take over these functions in a smiliar or nearly identical manner. I think this has happened to me in a way in that my intellect has taken over the damaged area of my brain that deals with social skills, and deals with them using an area governed by intuition and rules. I figure this because I now have a well-developed sense of social intuition in that I have a good sense of what is appropriate and what isn't. Due to this strong intiutive sense, I am able to behave in a very NT manner, despite it not being natural for me.

I learned social skills and how to correct my AS behaviours in a very intellectual way, like learning a second language. Each time I observed something done the "correct" way, I would internalize this as if learning a new skill or about a new subject. However, I have noticed that the way I conduct myself - although it is passable to others in they don't see anything "wrong" with me - is very rote and systematic.

For example, it is NOT natural for me to respond to a "How are you" question without a concious prompt in my brain to respond with "Good, and yourself?" with the correct posture, facial expression and tone of voice. There is a part of my head that interprets this question literally (and wants to say something like, I'm pissed off, achy and having friend drama, haha), and yet another part who wants to de-focus from the conversation at hand. For me, living in a socially based world involves a constant clash between what is natural for me and what others expect from me. Even though I enjoy the company of other people a lot, I get exhausted after long period of social interaction as I just can't take the "faking" anymore.

There is a guy with AS that I've recently became friends with who appears to socialize in the same way as well. The way he conducts himself is very NT, but when you look at the subtleties of his behaviours, it gives off the suggestion of being fake and unnatural. For example, I told him once that I was going through a hard time. he responded very sympathetically, but pace and his tone of voice did not match the message he was trying to convey: it sounded apathetic.

I did an experiment for a while in that I reverted back to my original self at times with the aid of drugs and alcohol as that was the only method of "shutting up" my social intuition. No one liked my true self as a result, they found her intrusive, annoying, argumentative, unreasonable, ditsy, distracted, stupid, overly outgoing and loud. So totally reverting back to my old self is out of the question anymore and I am unwilling to risk it. A part of me mourns her loss, though, as it was the only way I could be free.

Acting friendly and open towards people was another one that I struggled with, as I have a lot of social anxiety, and my basic instinct is to guard myself from people. I did, in fact guard myself from others well up until high school, when I realized that I had the capacity to make social connections. and that I genuinely enjoyed being with other people.

Just wondering if anyone else can relate to this, or has any general take on it. Do any of you agree or disagree with these views?
Is it really wrong for me to develop a social intuition?
Is it wrong to be truly yourself when your notion of self is so convoluted and twisted that people can't understand it?

I'm sorry I did not get your name. I am married to a man with Asperger's. He is 50, I always noticed a difference about him from the beginning but in the dating world I found him much more predictable and steadfast than most men and that's what caused the initial attraction.

After 13 years with this man I realize some things in more detail now; much like yourself he is able to navigate the world socially although from my perspective he believes he is much more socially competent than what I actually see. (me being nuero-typical for whatever that means). Our son was diagnosed with AS which caused me to eventually look around at my husband, his family etc... and I have now concluded there is an abundance of common traits in his entire family. It's hard to describe because-yes-it is subtle and even the general population have degrees of differences and I do not think an outsider could make this connection to what actually "is" the difference though they may be able to detect a quirkiness if you will.

Living with this person is quite another story however. Like yourself he is capable of socially fitting in often following what he sees the others doing even though it may be totally out of his element to do those things. For example a guy from work buys him drinks at the bar, he keeps drinking even though he is not a drinker because he deems that to be the expectation when in the company of coworkers at a bar. But most times he would not want to go and even be in these situations at all except he plays guitar and these are the venues that allow him to do that which he does enjoy, however now he has found a church that lets him play so he is there every time the doors swing open with a vigor and conviction that in my opinion is almost obsessive (quirky).

In marriage it is very difficult to be with someone who is much different in their neurological thinking than yourself. From his perspective a wife is a nagging thing, a thing that causes much pain (to an Aspie nagging is pain, even me talking is pain at some point), marriage is a thing that is necessary but not a source of joy however I doubt he'd ever pull the trigger on the relationship out of fear of the unknown which is greater pain than the aforementioned, he is getting some need met but his overall display of unhappiness makes me want to run. That is the way I feel with him -like the old ball and chain -no one likes to feel like that -relationships are about how YOU feel with the person you're with, not about always making THEM feel good about themselves. It is as if society's "negativity" about relationships is all he absorbs without ever willing any positivity to balance that. My perspective is to try and work on the marriage by getting in touch with our inner feelings etc... concepts which fall upon deaf Aspie ears. Asking an Aspie to get in touch with his emotions is like asking him to hold his hand to a hot stove -he want's to "fix" me the way he would "fix" a car because listening to me go over my feelings isn't an option for him since he cannot put himself in my shoes.

This creates a divide which once established is excruciating for the NT who is usually the one who keeps the relationship going until they can no longer reason the spouses good qualities against the needed yet lacking emotional connection. We are trying a therapy with my son and our family and the therapist gave us a schedule to sit for five minutes with no tv or other distraction with each other in the same room and he has not done it yet. Instead this morning he leaves a sticky note that reads "God is not as hard on me as you are -I answer to him not you" which is confusing to me because I don't really discuss God with him. Anyways would love to hear your thoughts on this. Cheryl

Like yourself, I learned and implemented acceptable social behaviors consciously. While my response time has improved with practice, it's still completely conscious - there's nothing intuitive about it, unless you want to call 'muscle memory' intuitive. I don't believe it is, personally.

As far as neuroplasticity is concerned, it *might* play a factor in improved response time; I couldn't say for sure, but I suppose it's plausible. Perhaps 'muscle memory' would fall under this category more succinctly than 'intuition'? But I digress.

Unfortunately, our civilization is composed of a kind of 'herd mentality', and we are not of the herd. For survival purposes, there is no doubt that some 'blending in' is required. How much is going to be up to the individual's desire and ability to do so. One's 'place' in the status quo is also going to play into it, as well as age, I think. Ex., I find it's getting a little easier for me to expose a bit more of my "Aspiness" as I've gotten older and less attached to acceptance by strangers. When first thrust into the 'world at large', it was a very, very trying time because I was keenly aware of being different and felt more pressure to fit in.

"Shutting up" your social intuition through drugs/alcohol may actually have been a hinderence to 'exposing your true self', as substances tend to actually exaggerate one's personality beyond even their own 'norm'. Not that I have room to talk, because I do drink socially, especially to overcome my 'natural' Aspie anxiety.

As for your questions, I neither agree nor disagree about your views - I'm neutral. No, I don't think it's wrong to develop social 'intuition' if you desire to do so, and no, I don't think it's wrong to be yourself. I think there can be a happy medium. If I ever find out where it is, I'll let you know!

BTW, do I get a prize for using the most 'quotes' in a post?

I am over 74 years old. I spent 50 years learning to adapt to NT modalities (I am married to an NT and have children and grandchildren). I describe my adaptation to the NT world as -learning to paint by the numbers-. I managed it by an empirical approach. I still have little intuitive grasp of the NT mind, but I can simulate the externalities sufficiently well to "get along" with my NT family and neighbors. The are times when I revert to being socially clueless and totally literal minded, but that is under stress or fatigue. Most of the time I can keep a good NT front and pass for human.

ruveyn

So many thoughts to share about your post. You should be very proud of all you have figured out about the world. I would like to share what you are feeling is probably very typical of everyone at all ages and in fact it might be a part of maturity. What else is funny is the behaviors you spoke of might be excepted in a man but not a women..how unfair is that?

You will find you have one behavior for each different circle of friends but when you find that right person you will be able to be yourself again. The is a book out there that I read like 25 years ago and I only really remember the title it was "Do I have to give up me to be loved by you" again I love the title but I can not remember if it is right for this situation or not.

I discovered I have ADHD about 15 years ago..talk about re-examine my behavior. Seems all I thought was normal and typical is not..who knew. So the funny thing is now that I try to sit on my hands and not be ADHD, I loose the gifts of who I was. After reading a lot of books I found to embrace who I am and If someone asks how I am. At times I still do talk for 10 minutes telling them about my latest impulse.

Moral of the story is no one is really typical, everyone's got some sort of story or imperfection and those who think they are can be really quite boring. YOU should be celebrated, you like my children have overcome huge diversity, you are scared and that gives your character, depth and grace. It you shielded yourself from others it was because those others did not understand you and perhaps they were too shallow to understand all you had to offer. You are clearly intelligent and you will offer the world the gift of you. Have you considered writing a book of all the lessons you learned so others can learn from them as well....okay that was really from Gods lips to my fingertips....

Now neuroplasticity is something I know a great deal about. To help grow those pathways check out the program I used to help myself and my kids, Learning Breakthrough and also check out Integrated Listening Systems. Both programs work because of neuroplasticity.
Gotta run my oldest is IMing from Japan ...how cool is that?

I agree that many social elements can be learned through imitation.
One thing I don't understand is how you can act NT in a way that other people can see you as NT, as well.
Because with me, no matter how much effort I've put into coming across as "normal", people see something that is very off about me. I went with this one guy to a bar last summer, trying to be as normal as possible, and he never talked to me after that. I've met a bunch of strangers this spring, and one woman said that she immediately knew that I have AS.
I just can't fake it completely, and when I try to fake it, is's so exhausting that I typically cannot process anything anymore for the rest of the day.
What's your secret? I am very social and have always been surrounded by people, observing their behaviours, but when I mimic them myself, they are not natural at all. I may force a smile at someone when trying to be empathetic, but somehow I immediately tense up again. My speech is naturally very monotone and robotic, so I have to make an effort to have it sound natural, too.
What's your secret?

Congratulations on what you have learned! I'm sure it makes your life much easier.

I suppose the key is moderation--you want to learn enough to make your life easier, but not expend so much time and effort that adapting becomes your life! How much you need to learn is a function of what you want in life--do you want plenty of friends? Or are you content to be a loner? Someone who has managed to get a job in his special interest that nobody else can do may be able to function quite adequately despite severe social inadequacies.

Mathgirl,

Unfortunately, the only way to get good at social interaction is to practice. And, the best practice is what some Aspies abhor, meaningless small talk at the school and office to fill time! One possibility is to have a special interest that is somewhat mainstream, like gardening or sports, and learning to talk for only a few minutes at a time.


BTDT

Fine post^

Probably true. After years of exposure, along with developing an "intellectual grasp" , an understanding emerges; and after all how many variations are there in a specific culture? If there is a 'true plasticity connection' involved, than one wouldn't have to think about "what you're doing" in a social sphere. It would flow unconsciously- naturally.

The acid test would be: Imagine if you were away from "it" for a long time; and speaking for myself, these skills rapidly diminish with 'isolation'; to where someone off the spectrum would pick it right up like a fish takes to water.
If you get stressed out and lose your social skills ( as ruveyn) , then it's forced in there in an another way.

From the above( in my experience),I'd say it's a muscle memory, but I'm glad the O.P. is adapting.

Last edited by Mdyar on 23 Sep 2010, 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yea. What I feel is lacking in me is instinctive social behavior rather than social intuition. Sometimes there's a big disconnect between knowing what I should do/say in a social situation and feeling comfortable enough to actually do it without hesitation and/or a conscious mental nudge/self-prompting.

I have certain hang-ups, though, that I really can't seem to overcome. For example, when someone is worried or having problems I'm pretty much incapable of doing the "awww... don't worry, everythings gonna be allright <pat pat>" thing. It just feels wrong since I can't possibly know that everything will "be allright". I know that this kind of statement is a way of showing my sincere intent to give comfort rather than a statement of fact, but it still feels wrong.


I can definitely relate. It's troublesome that so much of my interaction is about saying what I think other people will expect from me to the point where I'm not even sure what the "real" me is. Everything involving socialization is so context dependent. It's really hard for me to understand how NTs seem so comfortable. Maybe it's just that they have a more flexible sense of "self" that is more easily influenced by others without feeling forced. I can't really comprehend it.

If I had one, I would definitely tell you what it is...but I don't. It's not like I have some magical key that unlocks NTness.

I have been thinking about this a lot though, and have concluded that our differences in this area are due to three factors 1) my early diagnosis, 2) spending all of my teen years knowing about this diagnosis and 3) actively trying to correct this by accessing people and resources who would give me "baby steps" in the goal of reaching NT type behaviours.

I was diagnosed at the age of 7, one year after AS was entered into the DSM. At the time, I fit the profile of someone with AS extremely well. The diagnosis, despite my parents being against it, was to assist in adapting to elementary school, where I was excelling academically but failing emotionally and socially. The teachers knew all about my diagnosis, and as a result, made an intense IEP for me which focused on me levelling out and becoming my normal peers. It worked in a way: by the time I graduated elementary school my social skills had markedly improved (but were still crappy), yet I wasn't as intelligent, creative or inquisitive as before. I feel like they ruined me in a way and took away my gifts.

I found out about my diagnosis at around 14 or 15. Since I grew up in a small farming community, my world was pretty isolated and the only other people I knew were NTs. There were no Meetup groups, no support groups and no forms of self-advocacy available for me...so I came to the conclusion that my diagnosis was something defective and one I could actively change. Once I knew what I had, I researched it extensively and read up everything I could on the subject. In particular, I looked at the aspects of AS that applied to me and in my everyday interactions practiced changing them. I had not, however, developed confidence in this technique until grade 12, when I began to interact with NTs confidently. It took me a number of years before I could trust them.

My sister had a developmental delay, so I decided to take baby steps in socializing through becoming part of her peer group who were on the same social level that I was. My best friend for a number of years was a girl (now one of my sister's best friends) with a developmental delay and OCD until I "outgrew" her and moved on. Around grade 10 I also started doing presentations. During grade 11 and 12 I also joined a youth social group in a nearby city that consisted of people with developmental delays. I set a personal goal in this group: weekly practice in socialization that would work me up to where I'd be comfortable with NT peers of the same age. In grade 12 I ended up making a few friends at my school as a result. When I went to Humber the next year, I was left with a clean slate in that I moved to the city where no one saw that I had a "history" of AS like everyone in elemenatry and high school did. I made a few friends there who have became some of my closest and best ones, and they improved my confidence as a result.

I honestly believe that, given you were in my situation, that your intelligence and inquistiveness would have helped you get to the same place where I am now, and I don't doubt the fact that now that you have a diagnosis, that it could give you some tools to shape your interactions with NTs. I can sense that you think it's unfair, and in a way it is, but at the same time, we can't change how we grew up: what's done is done. Try not to put me on a pedestal though, as I still continue to struggle with things such as anxiety, depressive thoughts, obsessive thinking ,and an overwhelming urge to escape back into my childhood.

Some general advice: don't try to change yourself. You are one of the most genuine individuals I have ever met, and it surprises me that you envy my behaviours as I had a general sense that you were comfortable with yourself the way you were. Take advantage of your uniqueness. Be proud of it.