Where do people get these ideas about Asperger's?

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I went to dinner at a friend's house tonight. A small group - our host, me and my boyfriend, another good friend and his boyfriend. During dinner, the friend brought up the Tucson shooting, and stated that he was quite confident that the shooter would be found to have Asperger's. I said that it was a possibility, but that there was little info (so far) that would lead to that conclusion. He persisted in giving his understanding of Asperger's, explaining that Aspies are easily convinced of false beliefs - that they can be misled into confessing to crimes they did not commit, and easily led to believe that they, in fact, did commit some crime that they had nothing to do with.

I responded by telling him (probably at more length than was appropriate, seeing as how my commentary was followed by a rather long silence, and an abrupt change of subject!) that he was wrong. I told him that I had become interested in the subject several months ago and had done quite a bit of research into the topic*, and that what he was saying simply didn't fit Asperger's. I briefly explained the diagnostic criteria, and mentioned some of the more common comorbids, such as executive dysfunction. At least, I thought I was brief - I forced myself to keep my comments under five minutes, and I did not ask to use the host's computer to pull up info on A.S. (although I did think about it!) I explained that Aspies are more likely to reach a conclusion on their own, then be very difficult to convince otherwise, rather than being easily swayed to believe something demonstrably false. I can't say that I did a great job of presenting my rebuttal because, well, I kinda suck at extemporaneous speaking - but I tried!

The maddening question is, where do people come up with these ideas? The person in question is an educated man - I believe he has a PhD (I know he has at least a Master's) - and he runs the business school for a major state university! Yet, he was convinced that one of the major issues with Asperger's is that one is easily convinced of obvious falsehoods. W. T. F. ?

On a related note: would it be improper for me to further his education? I am considering printing out the diagnostic criteria, and a list of common "symptoms" of Asperger's, and giving them to him. I realize that activists would say it is almost a duty, but I am wondering how it would be perceived by N.T.s. Would this seem obsessive? To him, this was a minor digression in the dinner conversation - to me, it was a bit of an insult which I feel a need to answer.



* Please note that I do not have a diagnosis, so am reluctant to make the claim that "I am an Aspie," even though I am about as convinced as I can be without a formal diagnosis. Therefore, I did not bring up my personal interest in the topic, instead leaving him to speculate on my motive for researching this particular subject.

I read the ideas and it made me mad too....

I hate when people discuss news stories and say "well I think this is what was really going on..."

when there is so little information surrounding events and you only have a very small glance of what really happened.

then you have these stories on the news that go on for weeks saying "we got a new piece of info on it!" when really it's nothing much and just feed for the people who want to go "this is what REALLY happened.."

makes me angry for someone to say basicly "An NT couldn't have done this he clearly has Aspergers." this is the whole NT trying to out anyone that isn't "normal"

then there was that dumb post on wrong planet about the guy raping some girl at the office, this stuff really pisses me off but it correlates because who ever posted that had some thought that someone with aspergers or autism would be thinking like that.

ahhhhhhhhhhh! melt down! not really but it does make me mad.

He probably concluded that from hearing that we can be naíve.

While it is true we may get confused and answer things differently, we would never admit to a crime we didn't commit. I'm very headstrong in my beliefs and the facts.

Yeah, I've had my naive moments, but I can get pretty stubborn about accuracy.

Good question. I don't know, however perhaps he heard that those with AS are gullible. While it's true that a child with AS is more prone to believing that others are telling the truth, and may have trouble with metaphors, I don't think this is as pervasive as the general public might perceive.

A large number of people can be backed into confessing they did something they didn't. I think someone with AS would be a little more resistant to this, and those with AS general become upset at the prospect of lying, and tend to be extremely stubborn.

There are, however, areas where someone with AS is more likely to be more gullible than others, and this is dealing with systems in which rules are routinely bent, and which they have been chastised, scolded, persecuted or otherwise subjected to extreme social pressure for attempting to follow those rules. This may be an insistence by others that they do not need to finish reading the small print of a contract they are signing, and are inconveniencing others when they take the time to do so. It may be a lending agent telling them they should lie on an application because "everyone else does anyway," and things like that. In all practicality, there are generally situations when it's "ok" to bend rules, according to NT's, and when it isn't, and those of us with AS aren't very good at making these determinations. People with AS also tend to not have much in the way of a social support structure. I'm sure the bulk of us have been ganged up on more than once by groups of NT's who were upset with us for "going by the book"

So to that end, the scenario presented by this man is plausible, but it certainly does not epitomize AS.

This just really makes me angry because it seems people have no clue about the AS person. My son is dx my husband has a lot of AS qualities but not dx as we only just found out about son. Neither of them would never think of taking another life. My husband had a hard time just trying to get my oldest off me when he came after me because my husband is so very non-violent. Oldest is mine from first marriage very NT like me and he has ADHD I have the ADD. Oldest had a lot of rage issues and still does but he now is trying to control them and do something about them. I would suspect someone like him ever before someone with AS. My own personal experience and opinion is that people with AS do have stronger morals and values. Yes they do get taken advantage of and I think that goes with their kindness to others, trying to do the right thing, not wanting to get someone else in trouble but they are honest, dependable and hard working. I really wish I knew more about AS years ago so I could have done more for my family. I know my husband and son can't change how their brain connects but I can change mine for them.

My father is also highly educated and comes out with some weird things about Aspergers. The most annoying one is 'we're all on the spectrum anyway'.

People always seem to forget to suspect that group of statistically-most-likely-people called "normal."

Also, it seems to me that people equate any sort of developmental neurological difference as "dumber."

Maybe you could tell that guy about the AS guy who saw the situation with the credit-default-obligations/securitized-debt/sub-prime-loans and made himself rich betting that it would fail as it ultimately did. Very few people seemed to see that coming, for some bizarre reason.

I'm blanking on the guy's name, though. Someone on the news quipped, "yeah, amazing isn't it? It was figured out by a guy with Asperger's Syndrome and a glass eye!"

To me, that's a case of seeing things free of the groupthink that seemed to infect 98% of the rest of the financial world. Who were the gullible ones, there?

Ah, thank you google: His name is Michael Lewis.

http://minnesotalifecollege.blogspot.co ... -that.html

If Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, et al saw it coming, why did they let themselves end up with so much of their own toxic crap that they needed to be bailed out by government? (Or in Lehman's case, go out of business.) Why did AIG do all the credit-default-obligation deals, if they knew the entire thing could collapse and there would be no way they could ever pay off on that many of them at the same time. Some big players, like "Magnetar" saw it, but a lot of the 'big players' on Wall Street went right over the cliff.

If GS (or anybody) had gotten out (and/or gotten rich) just before it fell all apart I might believe they knew.

Returning back to the original subject of the thread for a moment, I think it's pretty obvious from viewing the videos he uploaded on youtube that Jared Loughner - the man behind the Tucson shooting - suffers from some kind of psychotic illness like paranoid schizophrenia rather than Aspergers'.

http://jmgcready.com/arizona-nutjob-jar ... -download/

I can't see how anyone who's genuinely clued-up about Aspergers' would detect it from watching these.

Sometimes people that are highly educated fall in love with their own ideas, assuming them correct simply because they thought them. I'm betting your PHD friend had some experience with an Aspie person in real life and extrapolated that experience into broad generalities. Since his chosen field isn't related to autism, he would have no compelling reason to dig deeper. How did he react to your explanations?

As to further educating him, if he is curious, sure, why not? But if is only skating over the surface so he can sound intelligent, then he won't be very educable.

As for his premise that we can be easily fooled, there is some truth in this since I know I have great difficulty in determining a persons true intentions based on their words, facial expressions and body language. So it is possibly for me to be completely misled by someone of they are good at lying. Conversely, if I have what I believe to be solid facts on something, you will find it very hard to convince me of something that contradicts those facts.

I don't know why the media is so inclined to say it's an ASD or illness when it clearly is a pyschopathic personality disorder not unlike other criminals who did similar things with the same disorder. The guy who did the shooting sounds like a run of the mill psychopath complete with the ability to charm others (example is when the cop let him go with just a warning after watching him run the red light. The cop, apparently, had no indication whatsoever Loughner was about to commit a major crime so he must have been very calm, affable, and totally beyond suspect. That ability fits the pattern of other psycho and sociopaths.)

The same place people get their ideas on alien conspiracies and anything else they pull out of their ass because it sounds smart. Opinions are like a**holes; everybody has one. Now, although people on the spectrum can be gullible a good chunk of the time (sorry, it's true, I've seen this a lot) gullible is not the same as stupid, and it's certainly not the same as shooting someone in the head. If this guy has a Ph.D, he is probably an idiot, because anyone who goes to school for 12 years is overcompensating for something in their life, and maybe that's why he has to give his "opinion" on the subject. All the Ph.Ds in the world don't change the fact that opinions are just that, opinions (it's not that ironic to say this LOL) and having a Masters or whatever also does not mean that you are good at communication. Communication is a lot easier if you care about what the other person is saying. I've regressed in this area, but I'm regaining it.

Ha! I was right all along. Even the most educated of NTs can still be dumb and clueless as a brick about Asperger's!