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EXPECIALLY
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25 Jan 2012, 11:31 am

Do they even tell you which type they are diagnosing you with when you also have AS, as the AS diagnosis supposed to assume that you also have ADHD?

Is it the primarily inattentive type?

Just curious.

I have all the traits of AS that are less like that of ADHD PI (good memory for facts, numbers, written word, etc). but am definitely hyperactive and was DXed with the hyperactive type multiple times. Also pretty obsessive.

BUT, I am still "in the clouds" in a way, or at the very least somewhat detached from reality. In a bubble, but I don't appear dreamy or foggy (although sometimes, I will just space out completely and lose track of my surroundings and everything that's going on for about 35 seconds without warning lol).

So do a lot of Aspies also have the hyperactive type and appear to be less dreamy?


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25 Jan 2012, 11:52 am

Talking in terms of the DSM-IV-TR, I have the combined type. I know that day-dreaming can be a part of ADHD-combined type too but I never seem to experience daydreaming.


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25 Jan 2012, 11:55 am

Actually I do not think having an AS diagnoses is any reason for one to assume they also have ADHD......that does not even make sense. ADHD and AS are totally different disorders though one could have both.


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25 Jan 2012, 12:06 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Actually I do not think having an AS diagnoses is any reason for one to assume they also have ADHD......that does not even make sense. ADHD and AS are totally different disorders though one could have both.


What I've always read here is that most people on the spectrum are either diagnosed with both, or that ADHD isn't diagnosed by doctors with AS even f you have traits because it's assumed that you would have traits if you have AS.

Small portion of people who are DXed with AS don't have traits of ADHD (this is me parroting back everything I see here).

But most people on the spectrum are "supposed" to be more similar to the PI type, even though they have skills that aren't commonly associated with that type (and if they don't, the diagnosis is somewhat of a contradiction).


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25 Jan 2012, 1:14 pm

EXPECIALLY wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Actually I do not think having an AS diagnoses is any reason for one to assume they also have ADHD......that does not even make sense. ADHD and AS are totally different disorders though one could have both.


What I've always read here is that most people on the spectrum are either diagnosed with both, or that ADHD isn't diagnosed by doctors with AS even f you have traits because it's assumed that you would have traits if you have AS.

Small portion of people who are DXed with AS don't have traits of ADHD (this is me parroting back everything I see here).

But most people on the spectrum are "supposed" to be more similar to the PI type, even though they have skills that aren't commonly associated with that type (and if they don't, the diagnosis is somewhat of a contradiction).


I'm confused, are you saying some of the symptoms of AS are simular to symptoms of ADHD? If so I did know that but even so that does not mean people with AS have to have ADHD or people with ADHD have to have AS. Its possible to have both but a diagnoses of one does not indicate an individual has both.


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25 Jan 2012, 3:24 pm

You are not assumed to always have ADHD if you have AS. ADHD is a very common comorbid, but does not occur in all cases.

I was explicitly tested for ADHD as well as AS in my evaluation. It came back as me not having ADHD. If I had ADHD he would have explicitly diagnosed me with it and included what type.


However, AS does include ADHD like symptoms, in that we also have executive functioning difficulties. However, personally,give me a list of ADHD traits (such as the diagnostic criteria) and I come back with none of them in almost all cases.

I don't present as ADHD-PI, ADHD-combined type, or ADHD-hyperactive type, because I don't actually have the traits of any of them. I just have autistic executive function challenges.

(To give an idea of what I have difficulty with - the test for ADHD where they make you click after any letter that isn't an X, I had major difficulty with, tested borderline on, and observing me he could tell I was actually focusing incredibly strongly and was trying to find manners to do better on it, yet was still having difficulty)



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25 Jan 2012, 3:43 pm

Tuttle wrote:
You are not assumed to always have ADHD if you have AS. ADHD is a very common comorbid, but does not occur in all cases.

I was explicitly tested for ADHD as well as AS in my evaluation. It came back as me not having ADHD. If I had ADHD he would have explicitly diagnosed me with it and included what type.


However, AS does include ADHD like symptoms, in that we also have executive functioning difficulties. However, personally,give me a list of ADHD traits (such as the diagnostic criteria) and I come back with none of them in almost all cases.

I don't present as ADHD-PI, ADHD-combined type, or ADHD-hyperactive type, because I don't actually have the traits of any of them. I just have autistic executive function challenges.

(To give an idea of what I have difficulty with - the test for ADHD where they make you click after any letter that isn't an X, I had major difficulty with, tested borderline on, and observing me he could tell I was actually focusing incredibly strongly and was trying to find manners to do better on it, yet was still having difficulty)


Hmmm.

I know some docs do DX both, and others don't but I have alllllllways heard here that it was because the AS diagnosis superceded and included the ADHD traits.

I am more like you, though. I don't have that many traits of ADHD (aside from being hyperactive), and have the skills more commonly associated with AS.

Although, I still thought most Aspies "lived in a bubble". I do have this without being foggy or dreamy at all, more like a "glass wall" seperating me from the rest of the world. So that is what is so similar to ADHD PI and why ADHD PI is often diagnosed first or along with AS.


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25 Jan 2012, 3:53 pm

EXPECIALLY wrote:
I know some docs do DX both, and others don't but I have alllllllways heard here that it was because the AS diagnosis superceded and included the ADHD traits.


Part of that idea (ASDs include impairment as seen in ADHD) stems from an area in which it was said (just something that was assumed) that autistic children were either too unresponsive or too difficult to communicate with in order to examine them thoroughly to tell the invisible reasons of their outwardly visible behaviours and whether or not a symptom/behaviour was caused by autism or ADHD.

Today children and adults diagnosed aren't all too unresponsive to too difficult to communicate with to test for other mental or physical disorders.


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25 Jan 2012, 3:54 pm

My head is full of fog most of the time. I think it would be worse if I didn't take ADHD pills. Also I'm hyper much of the time.



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25 Jan 2012, 4:02 pm

EXPECIALLY wrote:
Tuttle wrote:
You are not assumed to always have ADHD if you have AS. ADHD is a very common comorbid, but does not occur in all cases.

I was explicitly tested for ADHD as well as AS in my evaluation. It came back as me not having ADHD. If I had ADHD he would have explicitly diagnosed me with it and included what type.


However, AS does include ADHD like symptoms, in that we also have executive functioning difficulties. However, personally,give me a list of ADHD traits (such as the diagnostic criteria) and I come back with none of them in almost all cases.

I don't present as ADHD-PI, ADHD-combined type, or ADHD-hyperactive type, because I don't actually have the traits of any of them. I just have autistic executive function challenges.

(To give an idea of what I have difficulty with - the test for ADHD where they make you click after any letter that isn't an X, I had major difficulty with, tested borderline on, and observing me he could tell I was actually focusing incredibly strongly and was trying to find manners to do better on it, yet was still having difficulty)


Hmmm.

I know some docs do DX both, and others don't but I have alllllllways heard here that it was because the AS diagnosis superceded and included the ADHD traits.

I am more like you, though. I don't have that many traits of ADHD (aside from being hyperactive), and have the skills more commonly associated with AS.

Although, I still thought most Aspies "lived in a bubble". I do have this without being foggy or dreamy at all, more like a "glass wall" seperating me from the rest of the world. So that is what is so similar to ADHD PI and why ADHD PI is often diagnosed first or along with AS.



I don't think you understand what I mean.

Here's the list of criteria that you need to meet enough of for the DSM-IV and my reactions to each when it comes to myself.

Inattention:
Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities. I pay too much attention to details and don't make careless mistakes like this. I had huge issues as a perfectionist as a kid, and have never been such that you could make this statement about me. I'm someone who's more likely to say nothing and keep trying to get something perfect than so much as choose the suboptimal food still.

Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities. I had some of this when I was young because I was so bored. However, that was just because they were making me do work that was far below my ability. When someone challenges me a tiny bit don't have issues with this.

Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly. Don't have issues with this.

Often does not follow instructions and fails to finish schoolwork, chores, or duties in the workplace (not due to oppositional behavior or failure to understand instructions). Don't have issues with this, never had.

Often has trouble organizing activities. Only difficulty is in perfectionism.

Often avoids, dislikes, or does not want to do things that take a lot of mental effort for a long period of time (such as schoolwork or homework). I actively seek these.

Often loses things needed for tasks and activities (such as toys, school assignments, pencils, books, or tools). Don't have difficulty with this.

Is often easily distracted. Don't have difficulty with this.

Often forgetful in daily activities. Don't have difficulty with this.

Hyperactivity:
Often fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in seat. Yes, I fidget with my hands. I stim.

Often gets up from seat when remaining in seat is expected. Never had difficulty. I was the overly polite child even in pre-school.

Often runs about or climbs when and where it is not appropriate (adolescents or adults may feel very restless). Nope

Often has trouble playing or enjoying leisure activities quietly. Nope

Is often "on the go" or often acts as if "driven by a motor". Nope

Often talks excessively. I don't talk enough...

Impulsiveness:
Often blurts out answers before questions have been finished. Nope, people actually thought I didn't know things as well as I did because I didn't do this so much.

Often has trouble waiting one's turn. Nope...

Often interrupts or intrudes on others (example: butts into conversations or games). Very no, see the 'overly polite pre-schooler' statement.

If you've been diagnosed with ADHD, you have more traits than I have. The person who was evaluating me was actually somewhat surprised that I could show executive functioning challenges and be so strongly not ADHD on everything that he checked with me.

It is a common co-morbid, and a majority of people who are diagnosed with Asperger's are diagnosable with ADHD (I don't know about the rest of the spectrum whether its still majority, but I'd expect it to be so). That does not mean that we all have ADHD.

I don't have the whole looking hyperactive, or looking dreamy, or any of that. I might look like I 'live in a bubble" to some people, but that's never been commented (likely because I'll not sit there and think without something with me, either reading, or typing, or scribbling things down, unless I'm in bed).

When I was young, people thought I had ADHD because I was bored and not challenged. As soon as they looked into it they realized how incredibly wrong they were. When I was evaluated for my Asperger's diagnosis, he also evaluated me for ADHD, he had a very solid response of, "No, but she tests borderline on some tests, its interesting because she is very solidly not on anything else".

AS does not imply ADHD. AS does not imply ADHD traits.

There are types of executive dysfunction associated with being autistic. Like the rest of the spectrum, aspies usually have those. That is distinct for ADHD or ADHD traits, however ADHD is a common comorbid beyond those executive dysfunction traits.



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25 Jan 2012, 4:22 pm

I've got AS and ADHD combined type. My neurologist thinks I have ADHD with my Tourettes because a large percentage of people with Tourettes have ADHD and OCD. A smaller number of people with Tourettes have AS. Then there's me! I've got it all! I have been reading about ADHD (well as much as I can...) and there do seem to be a lot of symptoms of ADHD which are similar to that of Asperger syndrome. I don't think they are linked though, it is probably just coincidence.


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25 Jan 2012, 4:28 pm

When my daughter was dx'd with AS and ADHD PI, we decided to medicate the ADHD. They warned us, if the ADHD was manged we would see her start to preseverate more on her interests. In other words - once the ADHD was controlled the AS would be even clearer. And, it was.

Comorbids are so common in ASD - not just ADHD. Every case needs to be evaluated individually. If you meet a doctor that assumes any condition based on - anything - run far far away.



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25 Jan 2012, 5:29 pm

I was diagnosed with Inattentive ADHD but I'm combined. I can be hyper, impulsive and then almost sloth-like and forgetful. Well I'm always forgetful.

The so-called 'link' could be like the similarities between seizures and migraines: similar symptoms, different cause or are affected by different processes in the brain.

ADHD medication does make me preseverate on my special interests more, but it also helps control what I have as special interests. That's not going to happen to everyone, just strong-willed people like me. I'm not being arrogant, it's a part of being INTJ. I never thought it was that the autism symptoms were shining through when the ADHD symptoms were being temporarily treated. Still, 12 months later and I'm working on the last chapter of my book.

A lot of people can have anxiety and depression co-morbid with AS and ADHD but it doesn't always mean you'll have them, same with ADHD. You have it if you have enough symptoms that are impairing. Most people who get diagnosed with ADHD usually do when there life is a mess, even in adulthood, unlike some adult diagnosis of AS.


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25 Jan 2012, 5:58 pm

Might as well add a couple of things, Tuttle's post was good and got me thinking about how people might perhaps misinterpret the criteria and then mistake some very autistic behaviour for symptoms of ADHD.

Quote:
Often does not give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes in schoolwork, work, or other activities.


Autistic overload of any kind (sensory overload, change of routine, inability to remember certain skills under certain circumstances) can lead to that an autistic person does not pay attention to details and makes careless mistakes. However autistic overload isn't meant with that criterion. That would be like saying "if normal people are overwhelmed then they tend to make careless mistakes" which is perfectly normal.

What else isn't meant by that criterion is that an autistic person makes careless mistakes because they don't do not know or refuse to acknowledge that these details are very important - for others. It is perfectly normal though to be not as attentive about boring stuff that you don't recognise as having importance. Autistic people just tend to have more trouble picking up on "important" things that are only considered important because other people say so.

Quote:
Often has trouble keeping attention on tasks or play activities.


Play activities are often "social activities". An autistic child/person may be very attentive but miss out on parts of the play that other children/adults consider important. He or she may pay attention to the "wrong" detail, not understand enough of what he or she sees or hears to be attentive or to be motivated to stay attentive, he or she may be unable to understand or answer questions about what he or she did indeed pay attention to (but just can't explain in words) or he or she may not understand the social significance of paying attention to something social and find it hard to focus on it which would be normal - because boring stuff requires a fair amount of motivation to keep attention to. These are just a few possibilities.

The same goes for tasks although they do not necessarily include other people or language/speech or whatever I didn't think of just now.

Quote:
Often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly.


Autistic people may not verbally respond or acknowledge at all or not acknowledge in a "normal way" that they are listening. Some don't necessarily realise that they are socially expected to pay attention to what's being said. Then it can also be that they don't understand enough language or have major processing difficulties to be able to listen attentively and show that they have been paying attention. To be able to actually show that you paid attention and have understood can be difficult for an autistic person too for several reasons.

They do not fulfil this criterion for "inattention" then, of course although they show a similar behaviour for vastly different reasons than inattention.

Ah, I got to go. Maybe I'll do the rest later.


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