High systemization and Asperger's

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Warning: if you're not fond of complicated and kind of counter-intuitive thinking, then you're not going to like this thread. Sorry, I couldn't explain everything in an easy to understand way.

As far as I know, it is widely accepted that systemization has only a weak positive correlation with social awkwardness - I've even seen a research on that. Then why do all aspies have very high systemization? That small correlation would be only enough to account for a systemization that is reasonably above the average for humans.

I see a few possible explanations, but it might be something different from them, because they are all unlikely. Also, I'm not entirely sure of some of the information I used, it's possible that some of it is wrong, which could lead to an intuitive answer to my question.

First, if Asperger's is a yes/no thing - imagine everyone a normal distribution of social awkwardness, and the worst cases being a special form of ASD that doesn't necessarily include too high systemization, plus few "chosen" people who have an added effect of Asperger's. The first problem with this explanation is the people who have naturally high social awkwardness (because it varies between NTs), and the second problem is that it seems unlikely to me that Asperger's is a yes/no thing.

Second, if in fact the weak positive correlation (which is about 0.20) is strong enough for that. Then, since we already know (or do we?) that every Aspie (possibly with rare exceptions) have very high systemization, it'd make sense if they are rare enough for the weak correlation to lead them to that. This would also mean that there are many people with a very high systemization who aren't significantly socially awkward. It also seems to me that it contradicts the fact that many people from mathematical/engineering professions are Aspies.

Aspies has systematization but other people can't resist to fit in with the society norms that make them unable to exploit the first capability?
Also explains why everything that breaks the systematization will disturb aspies.

I don't see how systemization can make someone not fit the society norms. In fact, I have successfully used my high systemization in social situations, with people with high systemization - I constructed my statements in such way that stimulated other people's systemization, and they sounded good because of that.

But now when I think of it again, I can think of people with high systemization who aren't socially awkward. However, I'd expect them to be just slightly socially awkward, and the people I'm thinking of, are even the opposite of awkward, to a relatively high degree.

bump

They have?



I think the better explanation is that Asperger's is not social awkwardness - it is social awkwrdness + restricted interests and rigid routines; and makes sense that there is an association between systemetization and rigid routines; in other words, aspies are usually high systemizer because, if they weren't, they will not be aspies, and instead will have diagnosis like PDD/NOS, ADHD-PI or Schizoid PD.



They are?

Don't they? I know that at least, most of them do.

Am I getting it right? You are saying that aspies have social awkwardness + other stuff, because if they had only the social awkwardness, they would instead have diagnosis of things that don't actually include social awkwardness (but include other things)? That would only make sense if you meant that aspies should definitely have social awkwardness, but not necessarily the other stuff. And that's what I said basically, but I asked why do all (or most?) aspies have the other stuff, and not only the social awkwardness.

Oh yes, certainly. It's even in the stereotype. And it seems to me that the correlation between social awkwardness and being someone from that list of professions is higher than what is expected to come naturally with the 0.2 correlation between social awkwardness and systemization, even if assuming a really high correlation between systemization and being in those professions (although I believe that assumption is close, because people tend to pick their professions mostly by what motivates them).

I am having some difficulties in understanding what you want to say; about the reason why aspies "have the other stuff, and not only the social awkwardness", I think it it is because the other stuff is in the diagnostic criteria of aspergers and autism; a social awkward person without repetitive behavior is PDD-NOS/Social Anxiety/Schizoid PD (although the diagnost criteria for ADHD-PI does not mention social problems, I think that awkwardness is also common in ADHD-PI)



What stereotype? The stereoype of AS? The stereotype of mathematicians? The stereotype of engineers? If you are talking about the steretype of AS, this only mean that many people with AS are in mathematical/enginiring profession, not that many people in mathematical/enginiring profession have AS (my personal impression is that some of the more social awkward people are... high school History theachers).

I think there are many types of social awkwardness. For instance an awkward NT may recognize social cues but not know what to do about them or simply be too shy to respond as most would. An autistic person is more likely to miss the social cues in the first place, or work out the cues too late. The reasons are different but the end results are the same.