What do you find hard to accept that Aspies do?

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27 Sep 2012, 10:27 pm

Oh, ok. Then I can understand it. I can understand that others has it as well, I just find it hard to digest out of how I think personally and my experiences with what is most likely Asperger's.



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29 Sep 2012, 12:01 pm

Jaden wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
And "vanity" largely deals with considering how other people see you.

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
In conventional parlance, vanity is the excessive belief in one's own abilities or attractiveness to others (Stephen LaMarche)


Quote:
he social communication deficient aspects of ASD's are about actual communication in relation to other people in a face to face medium, not the way someone "views the world".


And the "communication deficits" in autism are related to how one views the world.

"Stuttering" is a communication hindrance, but I don't consider it as having anything to do with autism.

I remain somewhat skeptical of people who have an inherently "social" outlook actually being on the spectrum.


Vanity as defined by dictionary:
"Excessive pride in or admiration of one's own appearance or achievements."
The vanity you've described is a belief about how other see you, the one I'm talking about is actual vanity in one's self image in relation to one's confidence, not other people's views.

One can view the world as happy and full of opportunity, but that doesn't make the person sociable. Social behavior is established through connections in the brain, connections that don't exist in a lot of autistic people. This is stuff that people are born with, it's not really how someone sees the world.


"Connections in the brain" have a direct effect on a person's perception of the world. I'm not talking about an individual's personal philosophy or opinions here.

Without going into excessive detail, I view humans like I would any other primates. Humans are inherently a social species as dictated by natural selection and our evolutionary path. The way our primate brains interpret the world around us is often a direct reflection of our "social template." Many of the common, everyday human behaviors and actions that we take for granted are actually a direct reflection of our being a highly social primate species. It influences our existence down to the minute details of daily living.

Autistic-type brains have a huge dent in the aforementioned "social template." For whatever the reason, it's unplugged, loose, malfunctioning, whatever. Now, I would never attempt to un-DX someone, but let it suffice to say there are certain people I'm rather skeptical of as their "social template" appears to be operating just fine.

And, IMHO, "social communication" =/= "social template."

I believe there's a big difference between people who merely have trouble communicating with other people because they have trouble communicating with other people, and people who have a wiggy "social template," which is known as "autism." Communication difficulties can be caused by many more things other than "autism;" which is one of the reasons they're including "Social Communication Disorder" in the DSM-V: to differentiate between AUTISTIC people (wiggy social template), and people who have trouble with social communication (not necessarily a wiggy social template).

Hence, an autistic person's communication problems are in direct relation to how their brain processes the world around them ("perception"), which, in humans, the social landscape is an integral part.

Obviously, the above is naught but my unprofessional opinion, so feel free to disagree.


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29 Sep 2012, 5:46 pm

The only trait that seems linked to AS that I find annoying is when people have super-restricted diets. I don't mean something like being a vegetarian, or only eating Chinese food, or eating breakfast every meal, but when they will only eat like five things. Most people with AS don't do this, but I've met two who do (maybe they also have OCD?), and it requires a lot of patience. With both of them it was favorite childhood foods - macaroni and cheese, peanut butter sandwiches, etc.



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29 Sep 2012, 6:11 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I also don't get why a supposed Aspie would care so much about fashion, personal appearance, looking sexy, or what other people do in their spare time. ASDs are supposed to be a social/communication deficit and the aforementioned suggests a highly "social" way of viewing the world.

I smell bullplop, professionally DXed or not.


The latter two for sure suggest a social outlook, but as for the first two, maybe not. I could see a case where fashion takes the form of a special interest. There's lots written about it, there's a pretty much endless supply of crap to buy - all the traits of a quality special interest.



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29 Sep 2012, 6:53 pm

XFilesGeek

Can you not understand social science/the logical sides of what is social if they were listed somewhere? Do you not have that intellectual ability?



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30 Sep 2012, 8:05 pm

LordExiron wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
I also don't get why a supposed Aspie would care so much about fashion, personal appearance, looking sexy, or what other people do in their spare time. ASDs are supposed to be a social/communication deficit and the aforementioned suggests a highly "social" way of viewing the world.

I smell bullplop, professionally DXed or not.


The latter two for sure suggest a social outlook, but as for the first two, maybe not. I could see a case where fashion takes the form of a special interest. There's lots written about it, there's a pretty much endless supply of crap to buy - all the traits of a quality special interest.


It's not so much "fashion (which can be pursued as a hobby, independent of other's opinions), but as attitude towards "fashion," namely that one uses "personal appearance" as a means to "dominant" others.

I'm a poser hipster myself. :D

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Can you not understand social science/the logical sides of what is social if they were listed somewhere? Do you not have that intellectual ability?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question.

Would you mind rephrasing?


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01 Oct 2012, 10:34 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
Quote:
Can you not understand social science/the logical sides of what is social if they were listed somewhere? Do you not have that intellectual ability?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question.

Would you mind rephrasing?


Yes.

You are talking about "social templates", a "social" way of viewing the world, and so on, and state that it is hard to imagine an Aspie being good, skilled, able or wanting to deal/handle with these factors.

So I'm asking, do you understand social science? Like sociology. The science of it all (the science of the social), like sociology in may ways are.
And, do you understand the parts of the "social", like behaviour and mechanisms (fashion for example), that are logical? There are after all a reason for everything you talk about actually being a factor in many people. It is often very logical, hence there is a science covering these topics.
Lastly, do you understand everything you talk about in your posts, and more, about the social world, if all of these factors where put on a list and posted somewhere. Could you then learn it? When it was black on white, written on paper.

To summarize: Are you not able to think about these topics, what I call an intellectual ability, via an interest in them, studying them or whatever. Which means that someone with Asperger's actually could relate to "social templates" and have a "social" view of viewing the world, because they have an intellectual ability and can understand them by using it.



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01 Oct 2012, 3:49 pm

Underscore wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Quote:
Can you not understand social science/the logical sides of what is social if they were listed somewhere? Do you not have that intellectual ability?


I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question.

Would you mind rephrasing?


Yes.

You are talking about "social templates", a "social" way of viewing the world, and so on, and state that it is hard to imagine an Aspie being good, skilled, able or wanting to deal/handle with these factors.

So I'm asking, do you understand social science? Like sociology. The science of it all (the science of the social), like sociology in may ways are.
And, do you understand the parts of the "social", like behaviour and mechanisms (fashion for example), that are logical? There are after all a reason for everything you talk about actually being a factor in many people. It is often very logical, hence there is a science covering these topics.
Lastly, do you understand everything you talk about in your posts, and more, about the social world, if all of these factors where put on a list and posted somewhere. Could you then learn it? When it was black on white, written on paper.

To summarize: Are you not able to think about these topics, what I call an intellectual ability, via an interest in them, studying them or whatever. Which means that someone with Asperger's actually could relate to "social templates" and have a "social" view of viewing the world, because they have an intellectual ability and can understand them by using it.


Erm...still not quite my point.

To use a specific example using fashion, if you decide that your particular taste in clothing is "superior" and it makes you "smarter" than other people who don't share your garment preferences, and you get a blast of "feel good" neurotransmitters in your brain by imagining that you're "better" than another human on the basis of personal appearance, then congratulations on being an NT.

That's a "social template" as viewed through the lens of primatology.

You can learn ABOUT such things, but learning about them on an intellectual level and actually having it installed in your head since birth are quite different. Living your life according to an unconscious, but instinctual, "social template" is not equivalent to having it be explained to you and merely being aware of it.


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01 Oct 2012, 4:06 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
Erm...still not quite my point.

To use a specific example using fashion, if you decide that your particular taste in clothing is "superior" and it makes you "smarter" than other people who don't share your garment preferences, and you get a blast of "feel good" neurotransmitters in your brain by imagining that you're "better" than another human on the basis of personal appearance, then congratulations on being an NT.

That's a "social template" as viewed through the lens of primatology.

You can learn ABOUT such things, but learning about them on an intellectual level and actually having it installed in your head since birth are quite different. Living your life according to an unconscious, but instinctual, "social template" is not equivalent to having it be explained to you and merely being aware of it.


That is exactly right :) Glad you elaborated it



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01 Oct 2012, 5:35 pm

Underscore wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
Erm...still not quite my point.

To use a specific example using fashion, if you decide that your particular taste in clothing is "superior" and it makes you "smarter" than other people who don't share your garment preferences, and you get a blast of "feel good" neurotransmitters in your brain by imagining that you're "better" than another human on the basis of personal appearance, then congratulations on being an NT.

That's a "social template" as viewed through the lens of primatology.

You can learn ABOUT such things, but learning about them on an intellectual level and actually having it installed in your head since birth are quite different. Living your life according to an unconscious, but instinctual, "social template" is not equivalent to having it be explained to you and merely being aware of it.


That is exactly right :) Glad you elaborated it


You're welcome.

And I'm not actually trying to "debate" or anything. I'm just explaining my viewpoint, so, hopefully I haven't offended anyone.

Thank you for the chat. 8)


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