Do aspies often operate at a much deeper level of analysis?

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Gizalba
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13 Jan 2014, 11:30 pm

Disclaimer: I don’t know whether I have AS so these observations are based on a very limited knowledge in this area. To ask some questions may help me understand the disorder better, even if it turns out not to apply to me.

Logical v illogical (bear with me - this first bit may not look linked to the title)

1. Logical:

Some stereotypes of autism, such as the mathematic or science genius, would suggest that NTs think aspies are highly logical people.
Also, taking things literally and struggling with the many twists of the English language (I don’t know if other languages have such a strong tendency to say things that literally mean completely what the person doesn’t mean in order to communicate something? :p) – mild example being ‘how are you?’ - surely if the person doesn’t want to stop and know how you are if the truth is detailed or a less than chipper response, and they just want to be friendly and say ‘hi’… why not just say ‘hi’?) – I personally would say that confusion over ‘how are you?’ often not really meaning ‘how are you?’, is a very logical way of looking at the world, even if it isn’t a ‘normal’ way of looking at the world, although I could be wrong.

2. Illogical:

I would have thought, contrary to the above stereotype of being very logical, aspies are seen by NTs as not very logical, judging by the fact that those with AS are often seen to have perceptions and views and reactions that ‘don’t make sense’? I am guessing people may view things such as meltdowns, extreme emotional reactions, to things that appear so small and insignificant to the onlooker, as also being completely irrational and illogical.

So my question is: Do you think that Aspie’s can be misunderstood in communication with NTs because they naturally operate at a much deeper level of analysis which is not neurotypical but is nevertheless probably very honest and reasonable logic if a reasonable person spent enough time breaking it all down enough to see the logic? Lol.

Hmm, not sure if I worded that very well, sorry if it makes no sense! Also – I hope none of this is offensive – they are just ponderings not judgements or conclusions.



redrobin62
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13 Jan 2014, 11:54 pm

I don't know if I operate at a much deeper level of analysis than an NT. Hell, I don't know if I operate at a deeper level of analysis than someone on the spectrum. I do think about things a lot, including my health, my welfare, my future, my interests, etc. Whether or not this is deeper than others is beyond me.



LoveNotHate
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14 Jan 2014, 1:04 am

Gizalba wrote:
Disclaimer: I don’t know whether I have AS so these observations are based on a very limited knowledge in this area. To ask some questions may help me understand the disorder better, even if it turns out not to apply to me.


You write like I do, and I am diagnosed with AS.


Quote:
Logical v illogical (bear with me - this first bit may not look linked to the title)


One trait that AS may have is "preoccupation with order". I think the "logic" you describe is a function of the "preoccupation with order" trait. AS people are not logical per se like Mr. Spock. I think the preoccupation with order makes them appear that way.


Quote:
1. Logical:

Some stereotypes of autism, such as the mathematic or science genius, would suggest that NTs think aspies are highly logical people.
Also, taking things literally and struggling with the many twists of the English language (I don’t know if other languages have such a strong tendency to say things that literally mean completely what the person doesn’t mean in order to communicate something? :p) – mild example being ‘how are you?’ - surely if the person doesn’t want to stop and know how you are if the truth is detailed or a less than chipper response, and they just want to be friendly and say ‘hi’… why not just say ‘hi’?) – I personally would say that confusion over ‘how are you?’ often not really meaning ‘how are you?’, is a very logical way of looking at the world, even if it isn’t a ‘normal’ way of looking at the world, although I could be wrong.



I think AS technical genius comes 1) high IQ, 2) preoccupation with order 3) time to do work because of not socializing like NT people

Quote:
So my question is: Do you think that Aspie’s can be misunderstood in communication with NTs because they naturally operate at a much deeper level of analysis which is not neurotypical but is nevertheless probably very honest and reasonable logic if a reasonable person spent enough time breaking it all down enough to see the logic?


Yes. However, even if the AS person is honest, and uses reasonable logic they still might say something unintentionally offensive, or might not follow NT discourse rules.

Example ...

NT person: "How are you?"

AS person: "Good". (and keeps walking by without saying anything else)

NT person : concludes AS person does not care about how she/he is doing, cause AS person did not ask the same question



yelekam
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14 Jan 2014, 7:25 am

Personally I have a much deeper level of analysis and many people think of me as a gunius. Is this becouse of my having Aspergers, my high IQ, my good education, my love of knowledge? Propably all of these put together. Would I have my philosophic mind without Aspergers, no, or not nearly to the level it is.
Gernerally speaking I do think that of Aspergers minds are conducive to producing a deeper level of thinking. As to the matter of the odd things we do, which ome NTs call illogical, often times these things when more deeply analyzed are shown to have unique rationall. Though lots of times are odd behavior comes from preferances without rasons to back them; though that is the same for NTs, who have all sorts of irrational habits, but since they're commen aren't noticed as much.



SuSaNnA
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14 Jan 2014, 9:33 am

People tend to say that I think too much, and that I need to loosen up a bit.
I think that means I have a much deeper thought than they do.

I'm more of the logical side according to most people.
People who find me illogical are the ones who are the utmost illogical themselves.



Gizalba
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17 Jan 2014, 9:56 am

Thankyou for your responses on this,

LoveNotHate - In what way do I write like you do? Haha just curious, to see whether writing style could be useful to observe as a preliminary part of accessing how someone thinks and whether their neurology is 'normal' or potentially not. In your experience on this forum do you feel that many people with autism have a similar writing style?

Quote:
One trait that AS may have is "preoccupation with order". I think the "logic" you describe is a function of the "preoccupation with order" trait. AS people are not logical per se like Mr. Spock. I think the preoccupation with order makes them appear that way.
- that is interesting and makes sense as an explanation.

yelekam -
Quote:
Though lots of times are odd behavior comes from preferances without rasons to back them; though that is the same for NTs, who have all sorts of irrational habits, but since they're commen aren't noticed as much.
- That is a very good point! I have read that about stimming - that NTs stim too, it's just that their stimming isn't as frequent or as 'odd' looking therefore it often wouldn't occur to them that what they were doing was for the same but milder reason that an austistic person may stim - autistic stimming is only seen as odd as it isn't the norm. (not that I know much ;) I am only just beginning to read about it but what I read does seem to make sense and explain a lot.)



LoveNotHate
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17 Jan 2014, 12:07 pm

Gizalba wrote:
Thankyou for your responses on this,

LoveNotHate - In what way do I write like you do? Haha just curious, to see whether writing style could be useful to observe as a preliminary part of accessing how someone thinks and whether their neurology is 'normal' or potentially not. In your experience on this forum do you feel that many people with autism have a similar writing style?

Quote:
One trait that AS may have is "preoccupation with order". I think the "logic" you describe is a function of the "preoccupation with order" trait. AS people are not logical per se like Mr. Spock. I think the preoccupation with order makes them appear that way.
- that is interesting and makes sense as an explanation.


The bolding, numbering, paragraphing of your original post is indicative of an ordered mind. You start some sentences with "So", which is a word I use a lot, because it is leads into the next logical step. You don't appear to have use any useless words. The "disclaimer" at the top is well thought out, and lets the reader know the narrowness of your understanding of AS, specifically, your statement of "based on a very limited knowledge in this area" would not appear be something an ordinary NT person would write.

An ordinary NT person would likely say, "I don't know if I have AS" and stop there. You decided to be very detailed (pedantic) for some reason, and provide the narrowing detail of the extent of your knowledge. It shows honesty too. Overall your topic of "Do aspies often operate at a much deeper level of analysis?" is very insightful and does not presume to know the answer.

Well, these are my observations ... when I first saw it was intrigued cause it looked like some of my posts. :)



cavernio
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17 Jan 2014, 12:28 pm

As per the OP, not understanding that/when the same phrase can carry more than 1 meaning depending on the context isn't a sign of deep thinking or of logic.

However, if because you don't automatically understand that when such a phrase is uttered what the exact meaning is, and if you decide you want to know exactly what they were saying, you will then have to consciously try to figure out what the meaning is. Understanding the sentence requires deeper, active conscious thought for you.

Like, a master chess player might have memorized hundreds of openings such that they just know what the best move to do is without having to go through all the intermediate moves to figure that out, therefore they could actually be thinking less about their game than a novice.

I don't know how pervasive this particular aspect of ASD is in terms of everyday thoughts, and I'm sure it varies from person to person, but if you're always only getting a basic understanding of minutia, then of course you'll have to think more about things than someone whose brain automatically groups things into a more wholistic perception if you're trying to communicate with them on a more wholistic/more meta level.

In the same vein, a NT who tries to understand things as minutia would actively have to deconstruct their basic perceptions to understand the world the way you do. And that would require deeper thought for them.

Logic doesn't really play into it as far as I can tell. Some people, NT or autistic, like to get lost in their thoughts more than others.

Another aspect though, if what interests you doesn't involve constantly seeing and experiencing sensations, you're going to probably be spending more time in your own thoughts. So with sensory overload that autistics experience, of course one would spend more time paying attention to your thoughts. But I still don't think that that means you're necessarily more logical or critical. One can spend all sorts of time being uncritical about thoughts.


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kazma
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18 Jan 2014, 4:19 am

my dad once told me people don't want to think about things too deeply he said that's why people don't like talking with me as i get to deep with things in conversations so id say yes we do



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18 Jan 2014, 4:25 am

Do Aspies operate at a much deeper level? Nope. Aspies seem to operate on much the same levels as everyone else. The approach is different, but many of the views and conclusions are the same.

Aspies are also no more logical than anyone else, and I think many confuse "being unemotional" with "being logical" or "being rational" when this is simply not the case. Vulcans are fictional TV characters, not a real world culture.

Autistic people do seem to have cognitive tendencies that differ from NTs, as well as cognitive differences that can be profoundly different from NTs, but it's not like being autistic is completely separate from all other humans.



Gizalba
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10 Feb 2014, 1:40 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:

The bolding, numbering, paragraphing of your original post is indicative of an ordered mind. You start some sentences with "So", which is a word I use a lot, because it is leads into the next logical step. You don't appear to have use any useless words. The "disclaimer" at the top is well thought out, and lets the reader know the narrowness of your understanding of AS, specifically, your statement of "based on a very limited knowledge in this area" would not appear be something an ordinary NT person would write.

An ordinary NT person would likely say, "I don't know if I have AS" and stop there. You decided to be very detailed (pedantic) for some reason, and provide the narrowing detail of the extent of your knowledge. It shows honesty too. Overall your topic of "Do aspies often operate at a much deeper level of analysis?" is very insightful and does not presume to know the answer.

Well, these are my observations ... when I first saw it was intrigued cause it looked like some of my posts. :)



Ah, people do tend to moan about me being pedantic - I have playful arguments about them trying to communicate with me via using words/ sentences that don't mean what they are trying to say, or even mean the opposite! (I don't mean sarcasm or jokes, I like word play if there's a funny point to it :P But merely being careless with language I find frustrating and confusing). They tell me 'it doesn't matter' and I think they think I am trying to be awkward on purpose. However I just get frustrated that language is meant to be about communicating things and has great potential if used properly; words have a definition for a reason - if enough people bend the rules then language becomes more and more unclear and communication gets worse. They don't see the point in being precise or clear, but I don't see the point in not being.

I am often detailed because I want to achieve the least chance of being misinterpreted, and I see lots of people being misinterpreted in every day life and online - misinterpretation leading to negative judgement a lot of the time. However it does take me time to think about how to word something clearly.



Gizalba
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10 Feb 2014, 1:47 pm

cavernio - Thankyou for those interesting thoughts on the matter



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10 Feb 2014, 2:18 pm

I analyze the crap out of everything, and my personal journal is filled with bullet-point lists and complex outlines of whatever topic is on my mind. I assumed this was an autistic thing, but apparently not?



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10 Feb 2014, 7:13 pm

Going back to your original question, my answer is: maybe this is Something? I'm not saying I am sure it's an autistic trait, but at least some of us do this. Maybe some NT's do too?
I know part of my communication slowness is people speaking nonsense and my attempting to "understand" the illogic pouring out of their mouths, translate this, form the idea of what I want them to comprehend, then form the correct illogical linguistic reply for them to probably misunderstand me no matter what I say! Lol
It's so much fun- in social groups. :(
It's exhausting.



Gizalba
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10 Feb 2014, 7:27 pm

Ashariel wrote:
I analyze the crap out of everything, and my personal journal is filled with bullet-point lists and complex outlines of whatever topic is on my mind. I assumed this was an autistic thing, but apparently not?


Haha, that is exactly what my journal is like! I am very curious to know whether that is something people with autism are more likely to do, or whether NTs are just as likely to do that.