10 Jun 2014, 12:12 pm
List for clarity:
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1. The original use of the word was to refer to any individual that was not autistic, but it's use has become far more wide spread, and contradicting over the years.
- While it is still being used by some (a minority) simply to differentiate between those that are autistic and those that are not, the label is being applied by a majority to describe any individual that does not have a clinically diagnosable neurological condition. These conditions include but are not limited to schizophrenia, down syndrome, bipolar disorder, ADHD, personality disorders and slightly more ridiculous things like giftedness, depression etc. In a sense, it is accurate to not describe those individuals as having a neurotypical brain, but then it detracts from the usage of the term, in that most of the world is actually not neurotypical. The logic behind such labeling raises the question as to whether 'Neurotypical' actually exists, and if so, what it is.
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2. Everybody has unique strengths, weaknesses, personality.. the list is truly endless.
- While the term neurotypical could potentially be used to define those that do not significantly differ from what is normal, how would 'normal' be defined? Are people with ADHD normal, yet autistics are not? Are autistics simply 'less normal' than those with ADHD - is neurotypical a quantifiable term? The differences between the personality of each individual can vary immensely, and the way in which people view the world is highly individualistic. The term 'Neurotypical' in scientific matters is understandable, but it needs a solid definition, and shouldn't be thought to encompass more than what it means to 'be NT'.
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3. People make absurd generalizations as a result of their perceptions of other individuals by using the term incorrectly.
- This does not need to be discussed anymore. Recently there was a thread posted (probably still read) regarding the bashing of NTs. Incorrect assumptions are made regarding NTs, and it's just so obnoxious to read a post that describes how 'all NTs think it's fine to do this, that, bla bla' particularly when the traits being discussed are shown by all humans, and not just individuals that do not have autism. Such posts actually highlight the fact that everybody varies from one another.
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4. 'I have always felt different' - everyone feels different.
- I understand that semantics come in to play here, but the differences between autistics and neurotypicals aren't actually too drastic. Yes, they are 'clinically significant' and caused by structural differences in the brain, but we are all still the same species. There are low functioning individuals that do not want social interaction at all and consider humans to be background objects, and high functioning individuals that are essentially NT and individuals everywhere in between. There are NT individuals that are introverted, extroverted, insane, murderers, philanthropists, gifted.. it goes on and on. You perceive yourself by how you think, not by how you act, but you perceive others by how they act, and not by how they think. That's highly important to remember. Please do not misinterpret me and think that I'm saying that your differences are not valid, as obviously they are.
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5. In relation to point 3, a lot of myths circulate regarding 'neurotypicals', including, but again not limited to:
i. All neurotypicals only care about socializing, which means that they must be 'less intelligent' in general. It is absurd to suggest that intelligence = poor social skills (perhaps outside of extremely gifted). As an example, Bill Gates is said by many to have poor social skills, though people choose to ignore the fact that he had many girlfriends, and a story written by friend Carl Edmark describing how he succeeded socially - yes, succeeded.
ii. Neurotypicals have lesser logical skills than those on the spectrum. This is a myth that should be beaten dead. When it is said that people with ASD 'think more logically' it does not refer to an enhanced possession of logical skills, it simply means that when a situation would otherwise require emotional/social thinking, the autistic individual is most likely to think without emotion (think 'logically'). Autistic individuals often question 'Why would I want to be dishonest?' when asked things such as 'Do I look big in this dress?', and that is a great example here. The autistic individual does not typically think emotionally/socially, in that they wouldn't consider how what they say will effect the other person, and instead logically determines that being honest is the best way to avoid any pain as the companion will receive an honest answer, and they themselves won't have to feel bad about lying.
iii. All neurotypicals are fantastic at socializing. This is beyond true. There are a gigantic amount of introverted NTs in the world whom have similar social struggles to autistic individuals. The introverted NT differs from the introverted ASD primarily due to a lack of alexithymia, and communication difficulties; introverted NTs may not know what to say, may be too shy to say it, may not like socializing etc, but they likely won't fail (yes, NTs can still miss stuff) to understand sarcasm/irony and other social cues, and will recognize emotions.
iv. Neurotypicals do not have 'autistic needs' (too many to list appropriately). NT individuals can in fact have a need for routine and ritual, and many other 'autistic' things. The only striking difference is the response to not having them, or having them be disrupted. An autistic whom suffers a break in routine/ritual may feel intense fear or confusion, or literally meltdown, while an NT may become frustrated, angry, or simply dislike any change that occurs. NT individuals can have interests as deep as an autistic's special interest (they are just not all-encompassing) and have a variety of stims. I could list far more.
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EDIT - Cleaned up the post a little.
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Unapologetically, Norny.
-chronically drunk
Last edited by Norny on 12 Jun 2014, 2:18 am, edited 6 times in total.
10 Jun 2014, 12:30 pm
daydreamer84
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10 Jun 2014, 12:35 pm
10 Jun 2014, 12:41 pm
10 Jun 2014, 12:41 pm
His parents said he was born like it, but it is not Autism.
Thank you for this input, it is actually extremely valuable. It is the angle I was coming from when I said 'the differences between autistic and NT' aren't too drastic. We are all human. It is far better to refer to non-autistic individuals as simply that, non-autistic (allistic). The term neurotypical to me is analogous to being Australian, white, and labeling everybody else in the world 'coloured', completely ignoring all cultures, rather than recognizing them as not being Australian and having their own cultures.
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Unapologetically, Norny.
-chronically drunk
10 Jun 2014, 12:47 pm
10 Jun 2014, 12:48 pm
10 Jun 2014, 12:56 pm
Yes this absolutely bothers me, especially when people quote Temple Grandin as having said things like 'the spear would not have been invented by you social hicks' or whatever it was, as she is somewhat of a motivational speaker, and so motivating individuals with ASD was her prime agenda. To be honest, I'm not sure if she meant it or not either, but it's certainly not true.
100% in concurrence with you Lord Linatet. I acknowledge that an autistic may develop expertise in a field of special interest partially as a result of not socializing, but you can't conclude that the possession of social skills dooms an individual as a result. That's just blatantly untrue.
Sadly I think so too, but hopefully it can be changed at least somewhere.
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Unapologetically, Norny.
-chronically drunk
10 Jun 2014, 1:02 pm
10 Jun 2014, 1:03 pm
Professor Simon Baron Cohen would disagree. As would many others. The Extreme Male Brain Theory of autism hypothesises that autistics are extreme systemisers.
Autism has been found to be more common among the children on engineers.
Autistic traits have been found to be more common among mathmaticians etc. than in students of other subjects.
It is a well observed fact that autistic individuals are often extremely talented in fields such as engineering and computing.
So I wouldn't exactly say it was an urban myth as such. More a reasonable scientific theory that you happen to disagree with (which is fair enough, as there are many suspicious things about the theory).
I hate the extreme male brain theory. It is full of discrepancies and unproved affirmations (Cohen thinks it is proved but there are mistakes in the methods) and besides brain scanners have debunked it already. I am not going to repeat all my critics because this would be waaay too long but you can find criticism on it anywhere on books, researchs, here in wp forum etc
Also it is proven males and females are equally good at logic (or equally bad, depending on your point of view
)I spent a considerable time thinking: "Lord, what Lord?"
now I got it
Last edited by linatet on 10 Jun 2014, 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
10 Jun 2014, 1:09 pm
Professor Simon Baron Cohen would disagree. As would many others. The Extreme Male Brain Theory of autism hypothesises that autistics are extreme systemisers.
Autism has been found to be more common among the children on engineers.
Autistic traits have been found to be more common among mathmaticians etc. than in students of other subjects.
It is a well observed fact that autistic individuals are often extremely talented in fields such as engineering and computing.
So I wouldn't exactly say it was an urban myth as such. More a reasonable scientific theory that you happen to disagree with (which is fair enough, as there are many suspicious things about the theory).
I hate the extreme male brain theory. It is full of discrepancies and unproved affirmations (Cohen thinks it is proved but there are mistakes in the methods) and besides brain scanners have debunked it already. I am not going to repeat all my critics because this would be waaay too long but you can find criticism on it anywhere on books, researchs, here in wp forum etc
Also it is proven males and females are equally good at logic (or equally bad, depending on your point of view
)I also disagree with this "extreme male brain theory", who said being logical was more male than female. In fact males are driven by their emotions/feelings just as much.
10 Jun 2014, 1:13 pm
I like this analogy. It's a bit like me calling only British people ''whites'', and calling everybody else in the world ''coloured'', even though there are other countries other than Great Britain that are white too (sorry about copying you there
) . Actually, not quite sure what a British person would refer non-British people as. I know the term ''foreigners'', but I'm not sure if people use that term for people from other countries who also speak English.
10 Jun 2014, 1:16 pm
Professor Simon Baron Cohen would disagree. As would many others. The Extreme Male Brain Theory of autism hypothesises that autistics are extreme systemisers.
Autism has been found to be more common among the children on engineers.
Autistic traits have been found to be more common among mathmaticians etc. than in students of other subjects.
It is a well observed fact that autistic individuals are often extremely talented in fields such as engineering and computing.
So I wouldn't exactly say it was an urban myth as such. More a reasonable scientific theory that you happen to disagree with (which is fair enough, as there are many suspicious things about the theory).
I haven't read anywhere that autistic individuals innately possess greater logical skills than neurotypicals, in any research. The theory's use of systematizing is a measure against empathetic abilities, and only really considers high-functioning individuals whom are by definition guaranteed to have a relatively high IQ. It has received a tonne of criticism and even on this forum is not generally accepted as a reliable theory.
As for the engineering and IT thing, they have being questioned extensively. Aspies can make great engineers/techies, but it's in no way proof that autism provides better logical skills by nature.
Perhaps it's too much to refer to it as a myth, but it certainly isn't true that NTs have lesser logical skills.
I believe it was also Simon Baron Cohen who claimed autistics had low/no empathy, which almost everyone disagrees with.
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Unapologetically, Norny.
-chronically drunk
10 Jun 2014, 1:22 pm
Neurotypical (NT) is a term coined in the autistic community as a label for people who are not on the autism spectrum. However, the term eventually became used for anyone who does not have atypical neurology source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotypical
People with atypical neurology are consistently identified by others as "something is wrong with that person". These are life experiences of ASD people. Somehow though, despite these life experiences, you argue that hey "everyone is different" , and just pretend these people don't think of you as atypical.
It contradicts experience.
The definition is too broad (what is 'atypical' neurology?), contradicting, and also applies more subjectively in contrast to your objective view. Higher functioning autistic individuals consider lower functioning autistic individuals to have 'something wrong with them', yet they are both autistic. My analogies in my other posts can make more sense of what I want to say here.
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Unapologetically, Norny.
-chronically drunk
10 Jun 2014, 1:27 pm
10 Jun 2014, 1:28 pm
