Do you ever think it unfair...

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Really, NTs aren't any better at interacting with us than we are with them. We have no theory of mind for them but they don't have a theory of mind for us either.

Why should we try so hard to fit in with them when most of them are definitely not going to do the same for us?

Sometimes I feel like I must be "more" empathetic in my own way because even though I am not good at reading people or knowing how they are feeling, I still try so hard to consider their real feelings and most of them still judge me against their own standards and not mine.

Problem is: They can go without us, while it's quite difficult the other way around. There are just too many of them.
We meet NTs every day, while the common NT will meet somebody on the spectrum very rarely or never at all. (What makes it even more difficult for them to built a theory of mind, due to lack of "samples")

Es an exampe of my own similar ignorance: There are many deaf-mute people. But I never did the effort to learn their sign-language. Just because I don't meet many of them and it would take a lot of time.

But would you expect them to be able to physically speak, or to hear you? Would you think less of them because they couldn't or struggled?

Probably not.

Whether or not one can "speak the language", I would think it proper to at least make some kind of attempt to understand them rather than always judging from one's own standards, especially when it concerns people you interact with regularly.

Other reasons why Aspies have to adjust to NTs and not the other way round:

In almost all cases:
1. Your boss is an NT
2. Your immediate family are NTs
3. Your neighbours are NTs
4. The people you're likely to date are NTs
5. Your partner's parents are NTs
6. Your teachers are NTs
7. Your doctor, your therapist, your post-office clerk, your bank manager, etc. etc. etc.

Surely this applies to your immediate family -- if you have an ASD sibling who is expected to adjust to you because you're family then in all fairness you should be adjusting to her at the same time.



Likewise, if you need to adjust to them because they're your neighbours, it should be mutual.



And again (I am pleased to say that my current partner and I have an understanding/mutual adaptation, but this has not been the case with other partners).

In any case I'm not arguing against the reality of the situation, rather that it often seems that on an otherwise level playing field, it's the non-NTs who end up doing most of the adjusting.

Situations where one person is in a position of power over another is somewhat different, and then it is less a case of ASD adjusting for an NT than it is an employee for and employer, etc. (although obviously there will still be some NT/ASD issues, it's not like your NT colleagues are exempt from that particular effort).

....and in typical aspie fashion you've asked a question in which you really weren't interested in hearing what anyone else had to say in the first place.

Heh. Sorry.

In my defense, none of the responses so far had really addressed the question. There are plenty of reasons why it is best to try to adjust, but the question was really calling for a value judgement.

Actually, I think it does go both ways. At least in relationships that are close enough to care about. You don't think your family had to get used to you and the way that you are and learn how to talk to you? Highly unlikely.

Having much discussion with my husband, I've realized there is no way I can understand his way of thinking but he can understand my thinking (even though he thinks it is too simple, I prefer the term: direct). So there are two options - 1. I can continually misunderstand him 2. He can adjust how he talks to me. He has been trying to do so. And there are things on my side that I attempt to tone down for his benefit.

I wouldn't expect my boss or my neighbor to learn how to talk to me. But people who are closer should both try to adjust to eachother.

Yet another US vs THEM thread...
Welcome to the real world, 'rose. The condition you describe isn't an "Aspie/NT" thing- it's a whole-world thing.

You can't really tell me that it is not an issue relevant to ASD/NT because I'm fairly sure that would not be true, even if it is also relevant to other things. The posts on this forum itself seem to illustrate that being non-NT seems to widen the gap that already exists between people because of other differences. It is surely relevant.

Why else then, do books and articles and forum posts I've read also seem to centre around relationships where one person seems to try more than the other, or one tries to change the other, or one tells the other that they have to change (and not concerning abusive behaviour) or leave? "The Other Half of Asperger Syndrome" by Maxine Aston, for example, is full of those sorts of stories.

Feel free to tell me that my sources have mislead me about the prevalence of this kind of phenomenon, but I think that to get an impression that it is common enough to be commented on is a fair impression.

I don't think you've been misled- just that your relatively short lifetime of experience has created a condensed sense of the world and how people relate in it. That will even out over the course of time.
I'm not saying the condition you mention doesn't exist- and I'm certain it is slightly exacerbated by many persons with Asperger's inability (or dulled ability) to empathize &/or sympathize with others.
What I am saying is that it is the human condition that drives people to solidarity- to try and change others and to make others fit certain social dynamics.
Perhaps we (the royal "Aspie" we) are slightly more sensitive to this social conditioning- but we are not exclusive to it's effects.

Last edited by NocturnalQuilter on 26 Nov 2008, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You're on a roll!

Hehe- I'm on a bagel.

careful, if you're on there together with salmon and cream cheese, I'll eat you with my Bloody Mary

Great- now I'm hungry. Still 45 minutes to lunch time.

There are loads of them at my highschool, and nobody's required to learn, but there's a couple of them in every class anyway, and it would be kind of stupid to exclude 20% of the school from "everyone's" consideration, for dances and all that.

I wish that was the case for them NTs and us Aspies.