Picking Up Social Situations Intuitively....

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Does anyone know what this means, EXACTLY? When I first started reading about AS, this was a new concept for me...(one of the reasons I suspect I have AS).

I tried asking 2 of my friends once (NTs) if they could explain what this meant. I know that everyone must learn some things intellectually, this is clear- (and partly why I thought everyone had to learn them intellectually)...so where does the "intuitive" part come in? My friends told me they couldn´t explain it (bummer), but they totally understood it as a concept. They said when they were kids in school, playing with other kids just felt natural.

I know that some of it involves being able to "read" faces, body language and vocal tone. However, at my age I think I can do this reasonably well now, but I still have the feeling that other people have more "knowledge", or gut instincts, than I do. NTs seem to instinctively know how to react in certain situations, or pick up social concepts naturally, whereas it takes me years of being on the "wrong track", to finally having an epiphany, and then realizing that everyone else knew this thing all along....

So can anyone explain exactly what this means? Is there more involved, or is it really ONLY the ability to read non-verbal cues? Just curious...

NTs, feel free to answer this too!

well for me - i am part animal.
intuition = sensory and instinct

this is where i live a lot of the time.
and with intellect.

that is not specific to NT people, as they are often referred to.
Autistic people can have an amazing sensory realm and sensory animal response to their envrionment. in my case it is so finely attuned, that is is heightened to the extent that i am more like an animal than a human in many of my reactions to things. I jump a lot. i cringe. i cower. so, my fight or flight and my sensory response to things is overhwelming at times.

it is good and it is bad.
now, when it comes to one human at a time, i can actually get an animal response that tells me that such and such a person is cardboard, one dimensional and cruel. the way i do this has no explanation and is hard to explain. it is animal. it is like a scent that is bad and dangerous.

now, that means that i do not even come close to reading a crowd properly because i am overhwelmed by the sheer complexity and myriad of what i pick up on sensorially.
Morgana, you may want to read up on some of temple grandin's; breakdowns of this to understand it more.

the intuition is there for me. but it occurs somewhat differently.


the rest - nice and neat little human intuiton just does not make sense.


the question to ask oneself is..."am i feral? Am I an animal?"
it is residing in the place beyond words to such an extent that it can in fact be unbearable at times. (yesterday for me.)

my personal view is that anyone who is truly autistic is in fact going to understand what i am saying here.

Last edited by millie on 30 Jan 2009, 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"They said when they were kids in school, playing with other kids just felt natural."

That is news to me!

Millie....I can relate a lot to what you are saying.....Also.....I empathize with animals quite well....they are honest. I understand them and respect them. I also sense things about humans....FAKE human behavior is SO OBVIOUS and to me, the strange thing is.....nts generally CAN'T see it, or at least don't acknowledge this fake behavior's existence......to me it (fake behavior) is obscene. That's not an exaggeration.

This is how I understand it.

I am able to "see" the letter A and "know" the letter A, so that when I see A, I just know that's what it is.

I cannot do this with the time on a clock face. I know the theory of telling the time displayed on a clock face and if I wish to know what time is displayed, I follow a series of steps. With the letter A, I see and know without thinking or working it out, with a clock face I have to work out what the individual bits of information add up.

I believe social intuition is just like the example of how when I see A, I know it is A (as opposed to having to work out what a clock is displaying by looking at the individual features and combining the information to work out the whole). While I might be able to describe the features of A, this would be more work than simply seeing it and knowing it. I think social intuition is like this. People see/hear stimulus and instantly perceive meaningful knowledge accordingly, and that explaining what they are doing is more difficult than doing it, as is breaking down (and being consciously aware of) the information they are using to intuit.

sola, zees eez vedy vedy goot to know. i am not a compleeet nuttah and zere eez here and dere - a few peeeple on dee WP who eez like meee. zeees meks mee feel not so alaun.

I pick up on situations intuitively, though I do so in a way that is very atypical. I am half-aware of how it is done and that it happens, because though it should be a subconscious process it isn't quite for me. I can only describe it as 'just knowing'. Whether it's a riddle such as a sodoku or conversing with a person realisation just pop into my mind.

I know that in social situations, I pick up on positions of things, environmental factors and whether a person acts on an atypical or typical pattern - I do not know what a person is thinking, feeling or whether their face shows that or their body language or their voice, but I can assume what they are supposed to be thinking and feeling based on their position in the room and pattern of behaviour and choice of vocabulary and grammar.

Normal social intuition is based on expressions, gestures, tone of voice.. and more things I might not be aware of.

There's a lot of things you pick up on but that never reach you conciousness. You brain filters them out. If people walk through a street, they say they do not realise automatically there are 5 red cars, 3 facing one way and 2 the others and 2 black cars and a bird to their right jumping over the garden, the noise of a motor from far-away, the sound of their steps, the wind, their body position, other people, colours and forms of houses... I don't know if that's true because I do see these things, but people say that when I ask them. In any case, whether you automatically perceive all this or not, you can make yourself aware of it even if you'd normally be unaware of it. If it would normally not reach your conciousness because it's pretty useless information you don't need to know to be able to walk down a street or because your brain is perfectly able to calculate everything and take notice of dangers without your mind actively worrying about it. They take in these details, they have seen/heard/smelled/so on them, but they remain unaware of them if nothing unusual happens.

Facial expression and body language are like that. A person can make themselves aware of it, but people are not usually aware. They take that information in - their brain processes it, but the actual process of analysis doesn't reach their conciousness. Just the result does.

They do not need to think 'so, where is Josh's mouth - aha, the corner of the mouth are down and his mouth is in a thin line. So where's the eyes - they're glaring a bit' and so on. That's what their brain does for them automatically is they they can process non-verbal communication intuitively. What they will be aware of is a sudden realisation like 'oh, Josh's angry'.

You could say that intuition is a subconscious process that follows (mathematical) rules and is based on (perceived) facts.

It's a process that's on a higher level than keeping your breathing, making your stomach work, but it is also just a subconscious process. And this social intuition is a lot faster, a lot more effective and a lot more accurate than a concious process trying to do the exact same could ever be. Which isn't that much of a problem, really, because you can do good without considering as much as person with social intuition is able to consider in your position.

Morgana, that is what I keep saying time and again on the forums on WP. It's not just about reading body language or about learning social skills. Sure, by learning those you can lessen your social "blunders". But it's not those two that separate us from NTs. This is why I have to smile when I see so many threads about becoming more NT or acting more NT. It's just not possible. What we lack is an inborn thing, it's intuitive and we can make up for it but we can't acquire it. You can make delicious peach jam with peaches, but you will never be able to make strawberry jam with them. Most Aspies don't want to hear this, it sounds pessimistic and defeatist to them. They want to continue living with the hope that one day their peaches will yield strawberry jam if only they learn more social skills and body language.

Having Asperger's is first and foremost about lacking the social intuition to pick up the vibe in a group or with a person so as to be able to sing along. If someone finds they can improve this, then they didn't have AS to start with.

We lack the instinctive knowledge of what humans in general are like, how they will react to a specific act, and consequently we miss their manipulations, the tricks, the games they play to one up each other and gain advantage in the social game. Much if not most of this is not shown by the player. It's not as if you can discover his game by looking at his body expressions. It's mostly well hidden and can be grasped only by having an intuitive grasp of what humans are like. This intuitive, inborn grasp, is called EMPATHY. My siblings had it at and were using it to their advantage when they were a few months old already, and I still don't have it.

This I also can relate to. I'm maybe bad in reading body language, but my first impressions of ppl never fails. I can sense a lot of things when I meet ppl. I can sense if they like me or not, how they percieve me and what they think about me. It's kind of hard to explain, cause it all happens so fast, maybe in nanoseconds. Somebody told me that I might was psychic , but I think it's instinct. It's there and gone in nanoseconds. Just like I'm in the other persons head and percieved myself for a very brief moment. I think this is kind of difficult to talk about, but at the WP, anything goes

Wow, I´m absolutely amazed that some of you can have quick impressions of people! This is very hard for me. I tend to reserve judgment about people, until I get to know them better. Sure, I may pick out superficial things, like "this guy likes to talk a lot", or "this person seems angry or bitter about her life"; however, that was only an impression of the moment, and it could change. Maybe the person would seem totally different another day. I think my difficulty in forming quick impressions has been a problem, at times, in my life. And that was another thing my NT friends told me during our conversation: that they never feel "neutral" about anyone, that they can form an impression of someone after only a few minutes- (or was it seconds?)- of conversation.

My way of figuring people out is usually psychological; as I get to know someone better, I figure out what kind of "psychological type" they are. This works pretty well usually, it just takes a little time- i.e., no instant impression. I have read that others on Wrong Planet have used the same method as I.

On 2nd thought, I do have these "animal instincts" about people in times of great danger. When I walked into the New York subway- seconds before I was held up at gunpoint- I knew, instantly, that something was wrong and these guys were unsavory. But that only happens sometimes.

Thank you for putting it like this! Yes, I suspected as such, and you put it into words beautifully- (especially the "we lack the instinctive knowledge of what humans in general are like"....how true!! !). I definitely am better with reading faces and body language than when I was younger, and seeing as I´m involved with theater and acting, I actually have a rather good intellectual knowledge. This has helped me somewhat, but I realize that something is still missing. I still don´t have certain intuitions that others seem to have, and, even if I can "read" something, it doesn´t mean that I know automatically what to do. Much of what I do successfully now is based on learned behavior, so I know it is not "intuitive"...however, when I do it long enough, it can start feeling more like second nature...(but on the other hand, I can tell you about when it was I learned that thing and put it into practice).

Even when you read some of the AS literature, it sounds like it´s all about reading faces and body language, but I guess it´s not just that. Sometimes, as those books are sometimes written for NTs, they still don´t explain everything that´s going on, because I guess most people just realize it. I´m really curious how that works, or what that feels like to NTs. I was hoping one of them would explain it on this thread, but maybe it´s too hard to explain?

now greentea...you know i love your threads and posts...but here....well...may i clarify?

AS people actually can learn over time to compensate for deficits in human intuition , but we do so cognitively. Perhaps you should read some Temple Grandin to understand more about this process of learning and how certain deficits can be overcome.

we can improve....
but perhaps by different means than the ones you are referring to.

I think is has something to do with pinking up the clue of faces, behaviour etc and subconsciously processing those. If can do this, you do need to know e.g. how is this boss, you "see it" within a few seconds or realize that the other person is not interested into your current topic.

In my experience the only way around is to keep either a low profile or to interact only in highly formalized situation, when rule are laid down in a clear framework.

This is me too. People always tell me that I have an amazingly fast and correct intuition about a person. It's not true. What I have is 47 years behind me of trying to figure people out, 47 years of being burnt by having no intuition, 47 years of experience in analysis of others and myself. It feels like second nature, but like you, I know it's an intellectual process because I can explain my claims and prove them with examples. Sometimes people think I can predict the future, but again, I know what will happen because of lifelong analysis of experiences and not intuition.

Compensate and overcome are two very different things. We can compensate for the lack of intuition with insight, but when what's needed is speed of adaptation to a new kind of social situation to us, we will always blunder painfully. Besides, insight comes with age, whereas intuition is developed until age 3-4. And because most of the social UNSAID is unsaid for a reason, nobody tells us the truths we're missing. We have to discover them for ourselves. Each of us has to invent the wheel all over again. This takes decades for the brightest and most hard-working of Aspies, so compensation comes late in life, when AS has already shaped our lives largely.



As I always say on here, if it were just a question of learning body language and social skills, or compensating lack of intuition with insight, it wouldn't be called a syndrome and gov'ts wouldn't agree to support Aspies for life. But books have to make it seem possible to overcome in order to sell. They have to offer solutions. That's why I never read one nor would. And that's why I won't write one. Because in order to really improve our reality, we have to admit our limitations first. And few would buy this.

now i do concur with what you are saying, greentea.

In my opinion when NTs speak of empathy and intuition, they are actually referring to the ego, the socially controlled aspect of human nature that needs to get approval from their peers, that has a pecking order that is decided by.. whom? I don't know who decides the pecking order, but our inability to see our place and do what we are "supposed to do" while giving them whatever respect or admiration or praise or attention or pity or whatever that their place provides them, is utterly offensive to them.

Its all about the surface of things, their labels of social intuition and empathy are really just the ability to stay on the surface and react to everything on that level and doesn't actually have anything to do with being intuitive or empathic in the deeper sense (or they would be able to empathize with us too and they can't). I believe that one of our problems is that we do get more and we are more sensitive to what is going on, on a deeper level (even if we don't realize it) and don't realize that we are supposed to (or don't know how to ) pretend that what is really happening is not really happening, that is why they can't tell us what we don't get, because then they would have to admit to playing games, manipulation and less than altruistic intentions and to someone who just wants to feel like a good person and needs to be pleased with themselves, that is hard for them to do, they are afraid on a very deep unconscious level that they will perish if they see through their own illusions.

I can't figure out what I am even supposed to lie about most of the time, I have figured out that when someone complains about something that I am supposed to just 'empathize' with (pity) them instead of pointing out that there is an easy solution to avoid the problem in the future or fix it now, but they don't want to solve their problems they just want to make bad choices and act like they are the victim of circumstances.

When I discovered that I was 'autistic' (from my neurologist, although I chose not to get a formal label (dx) and find out exactly what type) everything changed for me, it made me more self conscious than I had ever been, before I knew that I was considered 'disabled or dysfunctional' I had no problem functioning in the world, I didn't even notice that people were offended by my behavior and most people seemed to like me, even if they thought I was strange. one of the reasons I didn't know that I was different is that my Dad is just like me and my mom just gave (gives) me the silent treatment when I do or don't do something that offends her or don't respond to her manipulation like I am supposed to (didn't even know she was trying to manipulate me), but I never noticed that she was even upset, I was just relieved that she was leaving me alone, now that I know that she isn't talking to me because she is mad a me, I feel bad that I have offended her and I still can't figure out what I did wrong, since my Dad died it has gotten worse, because he isn't there to explain me to her or to stick up for me.

I now realize that I have a form of intuition and empathy that most people don't have and even though it is not socially acceptable to express to people, that are not on my wavelength, what I observe or 'know', it is much more accurate than what most NTs want to admit. Now I just need to figure out how to fit into this world until we become the majority (as that is how evolution is going according to the statistics, chances of have an autistic child if you have already had one is 3 in 4, that makes it a dominant gene ), I think that we are more common than we realize we have all just been suppressed and made to feel bad about ourselves, I think there are a lot more women on the spectrum than is realized too, they are in academia, in abusive controlling relationships, in strip clubs, on the streets, anywhere one can survive in an alternative lifestyle without 'appropriate social skills'.

When we all learn to value who we are and stop trying to be like those that are condemning us because we are different, maybe we will find a way to thrive just as we are.