Do you Say Things at Work that cause others to Hate you?

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Earlier today, I was talking to my therapist about my problems at work. About a year ago, after having been working for > 25 years, I began to think about the problems I had at work. Particularly, with co-workers. At just about every job, I made enemies. I had no problem with them. They had a problem with me. In fact, these people requested (to my manager) that they not work on the same projects with me. This didn’t just happen once or twice. But multiple times at almost every job I’ve had.

To this day, I am not precisely certain why this happens. I believe it must have been something I said. Most probably in a group setting. I am guessing that I somehow insulted their competence or intelligence or both, by challenging something they said (which likely was illogical). As I have this tendency to address things that don’t make sense directly.

So, I work in high tech. Interestingly, I never have had problems with engineers. As typically engineers are both very smart and very detailed oriented. They would rarely make nonsensical statement or suggestions. But non-engineers. All the time.

I suppose I now realize how threatening this can be. Especially to someone who may not be entirely competent. And, once threatened, they use their social skills to fight back. Which is a fight I cannot win.

Since realizing this, I have tried to keep my mouth shut. At work, I need to constantly remind myself, "Rocket, keep your thoughts to yourself". But this can be difficult to do. As sometimes I feel almost compelled to correct false statement/assumptions. Or to ask clarifying questions, which could then lead to problems (as my series of questions would ultimately point out faults in what people say).

Anyhow, I wonder if others have experienced the same and how you deal with the situation. Thanks.

I have done this.

In fact I did it to a boss, trying to be helpful. Apparently, my effort to help was the equivalent to calling him an idiot and questioning his virility in front of his team--or something. I just noticed a technical mistake and suggested the obvious fix.

I try to bear in mind the motto "better to hold your tongue and be thought a fool than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

But I am fairly sure I have pissed off many people inadvertently.

I listed the serious flaws of a major piece of software and noted that it was basically unfit for its intended purpose and only then learned that the principle architect of the system was in the room. I don't think he was my biggest fan, though several of my colleagues thought it was uproariously funny.

What can you do beyond trying to be inoffensive? f**k ups are inevitable.

Good luck.

I don't know the full details of your jobs or your lives, but I will point out something I have noticed in my life.

I have had many people refuse to work with me because of negativity. The reason I was called "negative" was because maybe I did the following:
complain or whine
point out flaws of others or criticize them.
Put down ideas

do the above without even saying anything positive (think about this a little bit as well)

If there is anything I should have learned by now, it would be:
You have to say nice and positive things to other people if you are going to criticize their ideas, or point out their flaws. People will obviously resent your output if you try and coach them without them asking or without bonding with them first.

Adamantium – Thanks for the reply,

I have done this before (embarrass a boss in front of others), albeit accidentally. It's almost like I get into this mode and start talking and am unable to help myself. What I say, is factual and accurate (and generally agreed upon by others). It’s just that it is not socially acceptable (in this case, I suppose I am upsetting the social hierarchy).



Yes, this is why I need to constantly remind myself, "Rocket, keep your thoughts to yourself".

Aspiemike – Thanks for the reply.

These are good points. During the past 10 or so years, I have worked at a number of small software companies. More often than not, the projects I work on are "train wrecks" waiting to happen (by this, I mean either the product will be delivered way late, OR it will not provide the features that the customers were promised).

It’s my nature to think (and, yes, obsess) about this stuff. As I am always trying to “right” things (so as to avoid the wreckage). I do consider these “neutral” or “realistic” thoughts. Yet, they are counter to the “optimistic” picture that management describes. So, ultimately, I suppose my thoughts would be considered “negative”.

Anyhow, I do my best to keep these “negative” thoughts to myself. Unless, I have some suggestions to make things better. As no one like to hear that the plan won’t work. Then again, if someone asks me my opinion, I refuse to lie (as that would be unethical, from a professional and personal perspective).

There are several AS-related things that have hurt me at work. I have learned that I word things in ways that are misleading or offensive. I don't tell jokes anymore unless I know the person because I don't want to make enemies. I also word things in ways that are ambiguous (taken several different ways) and if someone is prone to take things negatively, they get offended when I meant no offense. I am very opinionated. I try not to voice my opinions anymore because if people disagree, they might get offended and think I'm a jerk. Not being good at small talk is another thing that puts people off. The uncomfortable silence makes people not like me. They gravitate toward people who are more talkative. I don't respect authority, treat everyone the same, only respect people who I view to be competent. This can be taken as being disrespectful. I don't know what to do about this. All the other stuff, I can work on. Not trying to ingratiate yourself to the group and earn status can be seen as being stuck up. Being self-absorbed or thoughtless can be seen as being deliberately selfish.

em_tsuj – Thanks for the reply. You are so much more self-aware than I was at your age.

When I was 30, I worked in a lab setting with a bunch of other software engineers. I was in my element - sitting in my cube, coding all day and occasionally talking to myself. It was even acceptable to skip out on the social activities at work. As such, in an organization of geeks and nerds, I was still somewhat of an outsider, mostly doing my own thing.

Then, for some reason, when I was 31, I decided to leave this insulated world, and move to a totally different role (that required working with “real” people). I have no idea what crazy thought led me on this path. But it was a huge mistake. I thought I could simply interact with others, just like I interacted with engineers (who I had considered normal people) -- by being logical, accurate, etc. I thought if I did a good job, I could do my own thing (such as skipping out on the social activities, etc.).

My flailing social skills led from one disaster to another (which I referred to above). Interestingly, being quite naïve, I assumed that the problems I experienced (for almost 20 years) was due to other people. Even after being told in multiple organizations that people didn’t want to work with me, I still figured it was them and not me. It really wasn’t until I learned about Aspergers did I put 2+2 together.

In any event, now I need to figure out how to avoid this from happening going forward. Because it certainly makes the working environment difficult when everyone is against you.

Yes, I have had problems with work colleagues in the past.

Not so much anymore though.

When I was younger I have literally been in physical fights with colleagues, which has resulted in me being arrested.

On one occasion, I was so bullied by the whole work place until I ended up getting fired, that I broke in to the place one night and sprayed graffiti all over the walls.

I shouldn't laugh really, but I got away with it because they couldn't prove it was me.

It took me years to learn how to fit in and compromise.

The bullying was out of order, and the way they made me feel. But I'm not exactly an angel.

I like that.

Now I understand why I have always done well working with engineers. The people I have historically had problems with at work are usually people in administrative or HR positions - in other words, the people for whom social skills are their bread and butter, and politics play a large role in their jobs and world view.

For the most part, I don't do small talk or office gossip, and while the engineers and scientific types appreciate my jokes, the non-technical people may (for all I know) find them offensive. And, like me, engineers like to talk about things and ideas and processes, not about people and feelings and blah blah blah puke.

Over time, I have gotten a little better at being able to make meaningless conversation with co-workers, strictly for the purpose of keeping things smooth at the work place. But when I get stressed out, all bets are off, and I tend to piss off the non-technical types left and right in those scenarios.

It is their fault. No one is responsible for incompatible personalities (not that AS is a personality, but that's how it would manifest in the workplace), but as long as you aren't being a complete jerk, your co-workers can be mature enough about it to work with you. That's one of the things we are supposed to learn in school; to work with others despite differences. They shouldn't get to cop out of that just because they are in the majority.

Keeping my mouth shut isn't enough. I know my solution goes against the importance of independence, but I need someone who respects my abilities and likes me enough that it's worth it to protect me from the politics of people getting angry with me for things I don't understand at all. I cope by waking for help understanding and with what to do. That may annoy people took of course.

The other thing I try to do is warn people if I see something going on that may turn into a problem, so it's not a surprise, and they heard it from me, how I see it, before they hear any complaints.

It helps to have a skill that is valued maybe, and to frame it that I am good at what I am good at and rely on others to do the politics I'm not good at.

starkid - Thanks for the reply.

Ultimately, I cannot blame them. It would be one thing if this was an isolated incident. It’s an entirely different thing, once a clear pattern is established. While I never intended to be a jerk, I must have been considered one. Otherwise, these people wouldn’t not have complained (to my manager).

Well, I don't work anymore because I was put on disability for all of my mental issues. I worked for 43 years or so and don't have a single friend in my life to show for it, so yeah, I guess I must have said a lot of crap during my life that pisses people off, at work, at home, online. I finally recognized that I can be an arrogant a**hole sometimes. A lot of times. I figured out the less syllables that exit my mind and enter into the realm of humanity the better off I am.

I am not an engineer but I do know that I am very smart. I worked at a place of employment for a while in a work program where they were supposed to be understanding about Autism and that was a big joke.

I often said things that made the others offended but rather than be good mentors and pull me to the side about it, I got a lot of ugly sarcastic remarks. Because I did not understand, I got angry and complained to my job coaches on several occasions. As a result, I paid consequences.

(I.E- I had a house warming party and included everyone from work in the invitation where no one from work showed up and refused to get me a card or a present while others got things).

Before I retired I worked for a OEM company that built machinery, for over 20 years, and which had a somewhat annual up-and-down cycle of sales.

From time to time I'd have a run in with someone. I always felt it was me, personally, they didn't like.

It always stopped before fisticuffs, but came close a couple of times.

And it was odd, but I'd notice when the cycle of sales was down and sometimes people were let go, the trouble maker was always in the group. I guess others must have found them obnoxious as well.

There are people that can't seem to get along with anyone.

denny