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Pepe
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14 Jun 2020, 9:41 pm

lostproperty wrote:
I feel guilt about being autistic and completely useless, but I don't feel guilty about the colour of my skin and I'm not comfortable with the way BLM is going about its' business. I certainly haven't benefited from "white privilege". I have the lowest income possible, my grandfather grew up in a children's home suffering all kinds of abuse and my other grandfather lived in appalling conditions. BLM seems to be creating a divide among people and making a lot of people feel bad about themselves, either as somebody who ought to feel shame for what they are, or as a victim that should feel angry. It's just bad vibes all round. The media clearly want to play along and push it as an agenda.


The problem I have with some members of the BLM movement is the inherent psychological blackmail involved.
"If you don't support us, accept personal guilt, then you are a racist."
Ironically, these people, I use the term lightly :mrgreen: , are engaging in psychological abuse.

Some of us can barely keep our heads above "Psychological Water" as it is, and on top of that, we need to embrace collective guilt also?
"I don't think so, Tim." :wink:

Regarding the "Media":
Most of the media and journalists, in all forms, gained their credentials from the university of "Plumbing and Sewerage". :mrgreen:



Pepe
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14 Jun 2020, 9:47 pm

killerBunny wrote:
As a left handed male with colour blindness that also is persecuted for his good looks and ridiculous intellect , when do the left handed people get their time.

me me me me me. It's all about me.
ME .

DO RE motha f*****g Myself

Seriously tho. Me.


I find it hard to believe you have the greatest intellect in the room.
Well, I'm here, after all. 8)

Fnord wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
There has been a lot of talk lately of “White Guilt” or “White Privilege”. The idea that white people are guilty by birth of black slavery...
Bushlit.

I have never owned a slave, black or otherwise. Therefor, I am not "guilty by birth of black slavery" and to say otherwise is blatant racism, plain and simple.


THAT'S the spirit!. :mrgreen:



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14 Jun 2020, 9:51 pm

carlos55 wrote:
The relevancy of the post is the neurodiversity movement has without doubt moved into the category of prioritizing group identity over individual needs and individual indentity.


With the overwhelming online neurodiversity mentality hostility to Biological autism research, rejection of the scientific reality of severe autism and inability to accept that many autistic people desire and need biological solutions.

Often backed up by hate accusations.
If advocacy was just about hey I have autism, loving life don’t want to be cured but other people can think and do what they like it would be a healthy movement sadly it is not.


Interesting point.



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14 Jun 2020, 9:56 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
There has been a lot of talk lately of “White Guilt” or “White Privilege”.

The idea that white people are guilty by birth of black slavery and racism and that some sort of compensation should be provided, both financial and other things by white people to those who are black or even non white.

As someone who is neither WASP white or black I’m not going to give an opinion on this.

However watching this Jordan Peterson clip got me thinking about neurodiversity and it’s quest for a group identity.

Jordan basically says group identity can be dangerous as one can just as easily assign “group guilt” to people.

An example was Hitler assigning group guilt to the Jews blaming them for Germany’s problems in the 30’s.

So anyone Jewish whether a baby or elderly person was labeled guilty by their group for Germany’s problems, which led to the horrors of the holocaust.

I wonder if many advocates have themselves considered the potential danger of trying to create a “group identity”?

I wonder if “autistic guilt” for our burden on society will ever come about?

As a group would we take to the streets to defend ourselves?

Do most autistic people some of whom are societies most vulnerable able to put up a defense against this?


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tOHUwwP6LLs


I think white privilege theory is B.S
Black lives matter is B.S

And to be fair the politics of autism is also B.S

The Neurodiversity movement is B.S
Curebees are also B.S

It's all a bunch of B.S

That's just my two cents :|


<flippant mode activated>

A lot of "B.S." is coming out of you, mate.
Better out than in, as Shrek would say. :mrgreen:

The laxatives are obviously working, then. :mrgreen:

<end flippant mode>

I also appreciate your contributions. :wink:



Pepe
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14 Jun 2020, 10:01 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
Who would be scared enough to bend the knee to us?

Would the police and authorities be scared of autistic people I wonder?

If in the future if things got nasty and they attributed guilt and blame to us, would anyone fight for us.

If they accused us of polluting the gene pool or being to much of a burden, would anyone care for us as a group I wonder?
Maybe,maybe not, perhaps but I stopped caring a long time ago.


That is pretty much my attitude, also.
"Meh",
Life is crap,
"Life is a biatch,
And then you die".
What can you do? :shrug:
It is rather liberating too.
And I mean that seriously. :wink:



vermontsavant
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14 Jun 2020, 11:34 pm

Pepe wrote:
vermontsavant wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
Who would be scared enough to bend the knee to us?

Would the police and authorities be scared of autistic people I wonder?

If in the future if things got nasty and they attributed guilt and blame to us, would anyone fight for us.

If they accused us of polluting the gene pool or being to much of a burden, would anyone care for us as a group I wonder?
Maybe,maybe not, perhaps but I stopped caring a long time ago.


That is pretty much my attitude, also.
"Meh",
Life is crap,
"Life is a biatch,
And then you die".
What can you do? :shrug:
It is rather liberating too.
And I mean that seriously. :wink:
:wink:


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28 Jul 2020, 5:03 am

I think there's some misunderstanding in this thread about what is meant by "white privilege" and what Black Lives Matter stands for.

"White privilege" does not mean that just by being white someone is privileged. There are many white people who struggle with all kinds of social ills like poverty, illness, injustice etc, and no one is saying otherwise.

"White privilege" means that someone who is white is able to move through many aspects of society without having to worry about being stopped from doing ordinary things, or automatically being treated with suspicion, in ways that non-white people can't only because of their skin color. This applies to driving a car, walking into a store, applying for a job, all things that should be ordinary and the same for everyone, yet they are very disproportionately fraught with problems for people who don't have white skin.

It's not an individual issue, it's a societal issue. There can be an individual white person who is treated badly and an individual black person who is treated well in a given circumstance, but overall there are very distinct differences if you look at society as a whole.

Black Lives Matter really just means what it says: that black people's lives matter. This should go without saying, but it needs to be said because society treats black lives as if they don't matter when such a disproportionate number of black people are killed by police, and then those police officers are not even tried or if they are, they are nearly always acquitted.

No one in the BLM movement is actually saying that "you" are personally guilty of society's racism, they are only asking that you acknowledge that it exists, and that it hurts black people, and that, because this societal bias exists, it has benefited white people overall, even if you personally are still struggling and are not seeing any tangible benefit.



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28 Jul 2020, 5:16 am

White guilt isn't a healthy way to solve racism. Making it so everyone is equal is. Yes, white privilege exists in America but nobody is asking for white guilt (Jordan Peterson strawmen aside).

In order for autistic privilege to be a thing, society would have to be vastly different.

Tbh I wish it was.

Neurotypical privilege exists.


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funeralxempire
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28 Jul 2020, 5:54 am

KT67 wrote:
Neurotypical privilege exists.


Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?

Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)

Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.


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28 Jul 2020, 9:21 am

bee33 wrote:
I think there's some misunderstanding in this thread about what is meant by "white privilege" and what Black Lives Matter stands for.

"White privilege" does not mean that just by being white someone is privileged. There are many white people who struggle with all kinds of social ills like poverty, illness, injustice etc, and no one is saying otherwise.

"White privilege" means that someone who is white is able to move through many aspects of society without having to worry about being stopped from doing ordinary things, or automatically being treated with suspicion, in ways that non-white people can't only because of their skin color. This applies to driving a car, walking into a store, applying for a job, all things that should be ordinary and the same for everyone, yet they are very disproportionately fraught with problems for people who don't have white skin.

It's not an individual issue, it's a societal issue. There can be an individual white person who is treated badly and an individual black person who is treated well in a given circumstance, but overall there are very distinct differences if you look at society as a whole.

Black Lives Matter really just means what it says: that black people's lives matter. This should go without saying, but it needs to be said because society treats black lives as if they don't matter when such a disproportionate number of black people are killed by police, and then those police officers are not even tried or if they are, they are nearly always acquitted.

No one in the BLM movement is actually saying that "you" are personally guilty of society's racism, they are only asking that you acknowledge that it exists, and that it hurts black people, and that, because this societal bias exists, it has benefited white people overall, even if you personally are still struggling and are not seeing any tangible benefit.

The way it is often used is to say you are white, you are privileged, your opinion is worthless. That might not have been the original intent of the concept when it was conceived but that is how it has been effectively used. And yes guilt tripping is a part of the weaponization of the concept.

"Black Lives Matter" is not a political organazition in the traditional sense but a loose coalition of groups not all of them agree on everything.

funeralxempire wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Neurotypical privilege exists.


Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?

Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)

Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.


funeralxempire wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Neurotypical privilege exists.


Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?

This autistic person will give it a shot. The concept is 180 degrees ass backwords. The problem is not an unfair advantage to NT's or white people it is that if you are a minority of any kind it is much more likely you will face unfair disadvantages. These disadvantages range from being ignored, to being misunderstood, to being discriminated against, to being verbally and physically abused. Some members of these minorities can mask but it often takes a psychological toll. There is no masking being black. I understand I am an ok boomer and my point of view is losing badly but as long as there is still free speech will advocate my point of view in hopes of a miracle.





Back to the original point of the thread. Group Identity is a good thing if it is used to lift the self-esteem of people lacking it. The catastrophic levels of depression, suicide ideation, and suicide among autistic people demonstrate a lot of autistic people would be greatly helped by an improvement in self-esteem. In order to realize the difficulties, one is having that is not directly caused by autism and its co morbids(society) one has to recognize one is in the autistic minority. It has been argued that autistic people by natural brain wiring do not need or need less group identity than NT's. The number of people calling themselves aspie, autistic, etc demonstrates otherwise.

Identity Politics has literally has been around forever. Politicians have always pandered to various groups. Various groups hold parades, feasts etc to promote group pride. "Identity politics" the newer colloquial pejorative term used to describe judging people solely by the group(s) they belong to. This is a bad thing. It is reacting to bigotry with bigotry.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 28 Jul 2020, 10:12 am, edited 4 times in total.

KT67
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28 Jul 2020, 9:26 am

funeralxempire wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Neurotypical privilege exists.


Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?

Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)

Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.


I agree - why are you pretending I don't?

I'm saying a neurotypical person who sits around bewailing the fact that society benefits them over autistic people instead of y'know, acknowledging that and working on it, isn't helpful to us.

BLM and similar movements want white allies, not white guilt & people who feel guilty over their skin but won't do a damn thing to change anything when it comes to racism.


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Last edited by KT67 on 28 Jul 2020, 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
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28 Jul 2020, 9:28 am

KT67 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Neurotypical privilege exists.


Would any here argue that it doesn't exist?

Does pointing it out amount to imposing some sort of 'neurotypical guilt' on those who benefit from it? (of course not)

Why do so many posters here insist on pretending other forms of privilege don't exist because their life isn't pure success? Benefiting from privilege doesn't mean you won't also struggle, it just means you'll be spared some sources of struggle.


I agree - why are you pretending I don't?


I'm not suggesting you're one of the posters who disagrees with that, at least that wasn't my intent. I was just asking it because it's a common trope here.


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28 Jul 2020, 3:00 pm

bee33 wrote:

No one in the BLM movement is actually saying that "you" are personally guilty of society's racism, they are only asking that you acknowledge that it exists, and that it hurts black people, and that, because this societal bias exists, it has benefited white people overall, even if you personally are still struggling and are not seeing any tangible benefit.


The BLM movement has been hijacked by extreme Marxists.
It has lost credibility/integrity, imo.

Also, you can't generalise like that.



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28 Jul 2020, 3:36 pm

Pepe wrote:
The BLM movement has been hijacked by extreme Marxists.


You mean the founders? :lol:


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28 Jul 2020, 3:56 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
The BLM movement has been hijacked by extreme Marxists.
You mean the founders?
Founders ... Marxists ... Narcissistic Neo-Pagan Philosophy Majors ... whatever ... the point is that the movement seems to have been hijacked and subverted from its original purpose -- from "(All) Black Lives Matter (Too)" to "(Only) Black Lives Matter (Ever)" just to stir up more trouble.



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28 Jul 2020, 4:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Pepe wrote:
The BLM movement has been hijacked by extreme Marxists.
You mean the founders?
Founders ... Marxists ... Narcissistic Neo-Pagan Philosophy Majors ... whatever ... the point is that the movement seems to have been hijacked and subverted from its original purpose -- from "(All) Black Lives Matter (Too)" to "(Only) Black Lives Matter (Ever)" just to stir up more trouble.


I'm really not sure that's occurred. :?


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.