Why anti-Cure people get radical

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The only viewpoint i don't accept is that "curing autism would make it better for the autistics." It may be true for some LFA's, but for me, it's bull. It's an insult to my intelligence and my identity. I don't mind the LFA's taking the cure if they so wish, but whenever they try to lump us together as all being "cursed, helpless children who will never be a part of society," that's what pisses me off. First of all, who said I was cursed? There have been as many blessings as curses that AS has brought me during my life so far. And secondly, who said I want to be a part of society, especially when society is this f@#$ing ignorant? No sir. You can keep your damned ingnorant opinons to yourself, and don't you dare utter them in my presence. If you do, i will not hesitate to strike you down where you stand.

There. That radical enough for you?

The trouble with the "cure" community is that they're talking eugenics. The Nazi's tried that. They killed more than 6 million people trying to rid Europe of "impure" races. Here they are talking (though they seem to be trying not to talk that way) about inflicting something on unborn children.

As Ooooprettycolors said at one point, "does anyone in that group realize what an insult it is to be talking about a "cure?"

I don't think they do. The only comfort I can draw is that I don't think they're going to have much success with any of their so-called research, and their money will dry up, and they will become a laughing stock. It'll take time, but it'll happen. They are mostly a group of crack-pots led, unofficially, by Jenny McCarthy. It is a symbol of this age when everything is simple, everything is dooable with enough money. Except as most good oncologists will tell you, all the money in the world has failed to "cure" cancer, and that is a disease. We understand so little of how the brain really works, even with all of the amazing tools possessed by science, that all they're going to do is waste a lot of money.

Let em.

In the end not much will change. Hopefully they won't kill anyone trying out their solutions.

Beentheredonethat

I'm not radical, but I can't conceptualize an effective cure that isn't essentially a lobotomy or eugenics program. Why should society waste money or effort on that when there are other things, like teacher training and communications devices, that would make a measurable difference in the lives of people with ASD, including LFA?

I brought a child into this world knowing that I was "defective" and that he could inherit "it" from his non-NT parents. This was something I struggled with - I was going to risk making a person with a more difficult life. Why would I want to inflict my troubles on another person? As others have noted, being on the spectrum isn't always fun. No parent chooses a hard life for a child. Every parent wants their child to have more opportunities and be happy. The pull for a magic cure is alluring, but it is panning for fools gold.

Don't misunderstand me - I don't want my child (or anyone) to wake up in the middle of the night in a blind panic. I don't want him crying in an office because he has to move cubicles. I don't want him black and blue from rocking against his bedroom wall. I want him to be reasonably self-sufficient when his father and I are dead.

I believe we can treat some problematic issues and cope with other parts. I believe that our treatment choices can improve with more research - especially with the input of people with ASDs. I believe that we can improve education and create more economic opportunities. However, this isn't an isolated defect or even a diffuse tumor. The spectrum, "symptoms", and traits are so diverse that a cure is neither practicable nor desirable for all of us.

So I do things to help my child to function in the big world. I encourage him, I help to structure his day, I feed him good food, I keep him clothed, I send him to a good school. I am his personal champion until he can be his own. I teach him how to cope with specific issues as they arise. I teach him how to figure out his own coping skills. If his only friends turn out to be fellow ASD's, I don't care. I advocate for human rights in hopes that when he is an adult, the world will be nicer. I will not seek a cure.

Most of the pro-cure people I know think we are sick, we are not like them and thus feel the need to 'correct' us. My mom is one of these people.

If she sees someone off by themselfs reading a book or drawing, she says "Awww poor thing, that person needs help" who is she to say they need help? Just because that person wants to read rather then socialize that means they are sick?

I am anit-cure, but I am pro-education, if people know more about us, then they don't have to scared into correcting us.

I always say: In order to be like everyone else, you "have" to be different, because no 2 people are alike.

Technicality: The Nazis killed six million Jews. On the whole, they killed about ten million people. Common mistake.

They wish to cure us
But i say to you
WE ARE THE CURE
the cure for their kind, homo-sapiens

-Magneto


That radical enough for you?

You're right. Killing millions of people in the name of some half baked ideological concept, over some imagined or pseudo-scientific difference, or to facilitate racial purity is in fact a VERY common mistake.. one that humanity (sic.. the very concept smacks of INhumanity) insists on re-creating.

On cures: the devil is in the details. Given that medical science cannot readily agree on what causes autism, cannot decide if it is even "caused", and cannot from one day to the next agree on the subject with any sort of consistency, I find it highly suspect that they could identify the genetic markers for autism, find a cure for autism, or even locate their collective asses with both collective hands. Medical science regularly leaves swabs, watches, scalpels and other detritus inside people. Medical science has at times posited that disease is spread by rats, shoes, devils, invisible microbes and even plain old dirt. Medical science has, on occasion, handed soldiers LSD, grown ears on mice, and systematically frozen and de-frosted people to see if cold kills. Would you trust them with your genes?

So.. that said.. why would anyone accept that medical science can "Cure" autism without accidentally wiping out any IQ higher than 100? (Picking a random example.) Are they going to differentiate between debilitating autistic traits and highly useful ones? Can they actually define what is or is not "debilitating?" It's worth noting that with higher function autism, most of the "debilitating" traits seem to be in the social performance arena, and given that social acceptabilitity changes with cultural and societal influences, and even over time itself, these "debilitating" traits are, or have been, or will be perfectly acceptable at some point. Is it worth curing a generation of children who will grow up in a time when what you just cured might be perfectly normal?

I dont know about radical "anti-cure" but there is certainly a case for being radical "anti-moron".

Dude, rock on.

I do value the community. So much that I am in favor of curing what ails them. My version does not involve extermination.

I favor treatment and education. Two factions seek control, for the money involved, the Psychobabbling Witch Doctors, and their Religion, and the, they would be better off having never been born, group.

Neither group wants to deal with adult autistics. The vast majority of autistics are adults.

Defective babies and children who cannot argue are the preferred groups.

I am in business, and when no one wants 80% of the market, I wonder why.

My version of a cure is who can function where.

Some of the rejects do very well in academic settings. I think an equal amount are just as intelligent, but have problems fitting in.

Some go into the job market and have found long term employment, some have more jobs than years. Some are very employable yet cannot get in, cannot get past an interview.

This is the AS and HFA end, where talents and jobs are desired by all, NT's with lesser talent are chosen over the autistic, and with many who group think, getting rid of the office autistic makes an opening for one of their own kind.

Community brings us our own networking. I cannot help but think like I am, and autistic or not, most people lack the creative, the vision, drive, for management. Most people seek a small package, a simple and plain role, which they will do day after day for a small wage, and that is all they expect out of life.

Most people want more education than they have. Job training is big. What is available does not meet the needs of the general population, so we are easily excluded. A twenty year old dropout paying child support needs to be put to work, or will be put in jail.

We are a very small group, very diverse, and no one understands or cares, except the mentioned groups who can make money off of some of us.

The view point of older people who have survived with no support, is, it could have been better.

I was the only one, the strangest person around, but not the worst, until I found Wrong Planet.

Here we seem so normal. I am working with several people from here. We work together well.

Emotional support, employment support, are here and growing.

Broad support is expressed for treatments, social accomidation, that will allow people to lead good and productive lives. To me that is The Cure.

Genetics does not have a chance. Even prenatal screening is highly doubtful. Taking the unsupported 1 in 150, it is more likely that 10% are at risk, and would test positive in some way.

Altering Neurology has no hope, and is an unethical place to experiment on humans.

Chemical treatments have shown no benefit. Other than conditions that are normal in the general population, depression can be treated, with the goal of finding and changing the causes.

Some behavioral treatments seem to work, a knowledge of autism does work in avoiding the triggers that make life worse.

Our situation is not as simple as wheelchair ramps and bathrooms.

We look from normal, to odd, to perhaps on drugs or crazy, I stay out of airports.

Support on Wrong Planet is all we have, and a growing community.

I think we need our own cure. Community, Education, Employment, and protecting the least among us.

I have come to know the program at Goodwill Industries. At first I did think it was a charity scam, but have learned better. Marginal people are given work, and after a year or two, are no longer marginal.

They do not become mainstream, but after learning to fit in, they find other places they fit in. Some employers are Goodwill shoppers. The workers are a known product, with a work record, and have shown they do want something better.

We are a rare breed, and it is up to our community to find it's way.

I think a lot of the feeling about Curbies, Psychos, is that they do not have our best interests in mind, but theirs.

We old folks had to find our own cure, our way through, but with a large group, we need many cures.

Our people need education and job skills. Money cures many life problems.

Autism Speaks and the Psychos may seem to be leading in this race, but they are going nowhere.

What we naturally defend is our forming community. It is the light we all walk toward.

Playing the devil's advocate, I can see certain things that could make life better for those who are on the other end of the spectrum.

Okay let's say if it were physically possible to pick what parts of autism can be preserved and what parts can be cured:
http://detailedthinker.blogspot.com/200 ... -cure.html

This was geared as a reply to someone's question on AS.

If we are going for any "cure" I'd like to see it as making non-verbal autistics (considered by some nt's as chronic headbangers) able to have a voice and communicate their needs. I'd like to see everyone on the spectrum able to enjoy the gifts associated with HFA. I believe many already do, but are not able to express them.

I think treat this and parents will be surprised how quickly the head banging and related behaviors go, and how rately such episodes will occur. What I worry about with "cure" is parents not giving their child a fair chance. Yes we know aspergers people start speaking right away, but what about PDD-NOS? When I was about two, my doctors called me mentally ret*d and warned my parents I'd not make it to high school.

But I did and not only that I graduated top 10%. I'm also highly verbal (oftentimes to the point you can't shut me up) and I can be social if I am put with people I trust. I just wish parents could have a little more faith sometimes and not be so gloomy. Not everything has to be that way.

Since I was diagnosed with AS approximately 6yrs ago, I've spent a great deal of time not harping on the bad things of whereabouts my limitations are noticeable. Instead, sincerely speaking, I choose to utilize and focus on skills that I can use to maximum potential to help me in my daily life. Yes, there are many AS persons out there that have much greater adversity to overcome but, one should never give up just keep in mind that all people are capable of going beyond what others might think or feel.. Hey, imagine the fact that, Car Sagan, a well known Aspie helped to pioneer ideas about the Cosmos despite the fact, many of his colleagues thought he was eccentric.

I hope everyone can see my point here wherein, never give up in a world that can sometimes if not most of the time is very difficult.. I too know what this is all about for 31yrs..now

ProfessorX

Not just that, but it's the notion of a cure itself. It's implying that those with any type of AS/ASD are unworthy of living unless they change who they are, of non-acceptance of differences in the way people think and do things, of demanded conformity. There's no appreciation for the unique contributions, inventions, etc., of those with such conditions, no appreciation for the very differences in thinking, and the unique creativity and originality endemic to so many of them. This whole demand for neurological conformity is truly frightening, and I think that's also a large part of the "radicalness" of being anti-cure.

Although I'm not so sure it's any more radical than those demanding one. In fact, it might be less so.

I think that's the most touching thing i've heard all week...

hehehe...

(...and the world continued to spin around completely unaware that a cure had been found...)

There are several issues with the concept of a "cure". The first is that the vast majority of cure research is being poured into identifying the genes associated with the autistic spectrum. The problem is that this has eugenic applications. As with eugenics you will inevitably run into the unanswerable question of "were do you draw the line?"

The second reason is that if you found a way to turn a living autistic person neruotypical, there could be extreme pressure to use it. Parents who refused to change their kids could be looked upon as abusive, and adults who turned down such a cure would be looked at as foolish. Even now there are some pro-cure activists that want to sidestep medical ethics, believing they are "harmful" to autistic people.

Not sure I'm "radical", but I have other reasons. Mainly, seeing yourself as disabled may make you sometimes act disabled. Something that needs to be cured is generally a disability of some kind, so if you say that autism needs to be cured, you're saying it is a disability. Expecting less of yourself usually makes yourself less.
There's also the possibility of selective abortion if they learn to detect autism in fetuses, like they did with Down's Syndrome.
If one can take pride in autism (fighting the "cure" is a way of doing this) it will help with self esteem and motivation.