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Dhawal
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10 Feb 2012, 3:38 am

Wow. I have extreme mixed feelings about this.

I love all your wisdom, philosophy, ideals and ideas here, except the garb of religion. All this would be awesome, if it was not mixed with religious hocus pocus.
I'm an irreligious theist from India, I'm not an atheist, so anyways I would not fit in this scheme.

Secondly, wouldn't it be better to start before Alex? There were great (diagnosed) aspies before. And yes, I don't understand the biblical contexts in your post, for obvious reasons.

Let's see what others have to say about this, those who do understand the context.


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Velociraptor
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10 Feb 2012, 11:24 am

When I call it an atheist religion, i mean we don't claim to have an actual god that we are worshipping. Someone could still believe in some other god, or none at all. There are many religions, large and small, that don't really have gods and they know it but play a role in society as a believer for other reasons. Personally as an Aspie it is very difficult for me to pretend religion and I don't like it... so I'd really prefer that we do away with pretense and all of the other one aspie that I know feels the same.



Dhawal
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10 Feb 2012, 1:23 pm

webcam wrote:
it is very difficult for me to pretend religion and I don't like it... so I'd really prefer that we do away with pretense and all of the other one aspie that I know feels the same.
Didn't get this part.


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Velociraptor
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10 Feb 2012, 4:11 pm

Oh yeah didn't answer all of that...

Everything has a beginning, so why not just write lots of them? A beginning for every relationship of a deified individual. Starting with Alex in that story only served as a suggestion of deification for Alex. With an actual explanation of the real history following the narratives a true timeline could easily be formed.



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10 Feb 2012, 4:44 pm

Dhawal wrote:
webcam wrote:
it is very difficult for me to pretend religion and I don't like it... so I'd really prefer that we do away with pretense and all of the other one aspie that I know feels the same.
Didn't get this part.


I'm just saying that I don't like to pretend to believe in religion like many do. I'd rather not be deluded or have to put forward ideas within a system where some storybook is an authority. Aspietheism uses actual historical people for its deities and just says they have been deified making it an option for people to revere them and making deification somewhat trivial to us as a group in historical terms. Aspietheism is a silly and fun "religion," but no one will teach their kids to believe in it as anything other than a philosophy. Science, naturalist existentialism, and morality are the savior, but don't pray to it, get to work! Our deities are thus people who have endowed us with their blessing through their work on some subject or another and happen to have aspergers. Aspietheism just exists to build culture, we only offer everlasting life through science and suggest that all aspies fund insurance policies for cryonics so we can preserve our numbers in the event that Autsprecher (Autism Speaks) gets their way and we all get turned into neurotypicals or our existence is otherwise compromised.



TheSunAlsoRises
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10 Feb 2012, 4:47 pm

Quote:
Has anyone suggested starting an Aspie religion?

We can call it Aspietheism and deify famous aspies and such. Of course we will actually be atheists... the real point of this is to build culture among those with aspergers and unify us as a religious lobby to battle in the political arena.

We can start by determining what it is that the wise and aged among us know and write a manual that is for aspies by aspies. We'll call it the aspie manual and fill it with generations of aspie to aspie advice and truths. It will be straight forward, say what it says, and mean what it means at face value. No hidden contexts, just advice to live by and how to understand the NT mind. We'll even give it vesicles. It will build a culture and and will state that Aspietheism is just a philosophy group that meets on Sundays for tinkering projects or for members to donate obsession related things or a small amount of time to interested aspies as "personal tithes." Each member's piety will center upon doing something good for another member of the aspie community or their significant other(s).


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_M9WrTC_qM[/youtube]

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10 Feb 2012, 6:02 pm

Life can be unpredictable at times BUT back to the main topic......

The pen is mightier than the sword......

I would like to see a collaborative project( among Autist )that involves the publishing and distribution of a magazine by Autistics centered around Autists. A magazine that high-lights education, arts and sciences, lifestyles, fashion, personal relationships, advice column, job listings for Autists, latest research and person of the week etc issues one might see in a neuro-typical magazine and more with an individualistic slant.

It would be an excellent way to have some control over the image of the Autistic as well as quail a multitude of misconceptions about Autism.

Even better, it would give Autistics a chance to learn more about one another across the spectrum.

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10 Feb 2012, 6:29 pm

Volunteerism.

I would like to see more Autists volunteer for Autism specific causes especially in regards to helping Autistic children.


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10 Feb 2012, 7:10 pm

I don't think FG as a whole does much... the movie has its roots in ideologies similar to that of Autsprecher. More attention should be given to the possible evolutionary outcomes of auties, though I don't think the information currently exists to accurately predict much...

Is there such information or research being done?

As far as wisdom from the aspie elders, I'm talking more about remaining productive and better understanding neurotypicals, especially family members. We are often plagued by social difficulties that arise from our differences of perception. An aspie and an NT can have a conversation and each arrive at a different conclusion of the other person's thoughts than was intended. This all arises from the assumptions we form in life due to the way we think and the same is true of the NT.



TheSunAlsoRises
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10 Feb 2012, 8:20 pm

I don't think FG as a whole does much... the movie has its roots in ideologies similar to that of Autsprecher. More attention should be given to the possible evolutionary outcomes of auties, though I don't think the information currently exists to accurately predict much...

Is there such information or research being done?


The type of answers that you are looking for in regards to evolutionary outcomes of Auties probably want come to fruition until Autistics do their own research. I'm not familiar with any studies involving the subject matter BUT i would be interested in reading any available information, too.

As far as wisdom from the aspie elders, I'm talking more about remaining productive and better understanding neurotypicals, especially family members. We are often plagued by social difficulties that arise from our differences of perception. An aspie and an NT can have a conversation and each arrive at a different conclusion of the other person's thoughts than was intended. This all arises from the assumptions we form in life due to the way we think and the same is true of the NT.

You are right. Like you suggested; someone would have to write a book, a scroll.

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11 Feb 2012, 1:06 pm

People support what they agree with. Often it is the purpose and not the current fact. Where current events bring out a wide lot of views, they do group on several purpose driven thoughts.

What I see:

As there have been generations of autistic long before charities sought to exploit them, they do have a history of thier own, and have found ways that work for them.

I have written a lot here about how the Guild System seemed to select Prentis Boys from those with autistic traits, then gave them a long education in a narrow field, until they became adult Guild Members.

A narrow focus, no social skills, a proven education when 99% were involved in food production. A wise choice where a few want to preserve the secrets of thier arts, and monopoly, over generations. Up to 150 years ago they were the only people in education and technology. They also aquired great wealth.

We do learn well from each other, and with a nod to Temple Grandin, it was not the most social that developed the better tools, it was the introvert that spent more time focused on their special interest.

It had been my special interest, for twenty years, and I wrote a book about it, but it did not all fit until I discovered autism. Temple's thinking opened my eyes, and I finished the book. It is about the first burst of technology that came around 40,000 years ago. An ape with sticks, rocks, fire, suddenly becomes a Technological Artist.

It fit, and so I also aquired the means of production, Digital Publishing, Binding, to where I could produce the whole thing, and over 10,000 copies a year.

Next I started looking for a place to produce, as I use up space.

Another problem is, I am full time being me, and production is full time for several people, and more, to develop the web site, produce art work, and produce other people's works. Like Lulu Press, I can do one offs, short runs, and it is becoming a large part of publishing. Writers should not have to build Publishing Houses, they should have it as a service.

I have found potential locations, small towns, rural land, where I could live with the costs. There are large buildings that have lost any economic value. Farm land is cheap. I like having wilderness close at hand.

As a one man show I have paid for everything out of pocket, some $20,000 in machines bought used then put in like new condition.

My plan is to turn book income into a land/building, place to continue.

One cannot avoid economics. Doing things cost. Doing things well costs more, but is cheaper in the long run.

Now comes growing. People are not only expensive, they want to sleep somewhere, eat, and wear clothes. I favor web based people, contract services, but if I print, bind, mail, produce web services, I need several clones that do not sleep, and I never get to go fishing, sleep, so there is a reason that villages exist.

Also I am autistic and it shows. I avoid most people. I was thinking a dog, a horse, maybe an elephant, a peer group.

Also, at 66 I might not live forever. Copyright is the life of the artist, plus 52 years. I have some thoughts on a lasting artwork, A Center For Applied Autism. I do not think any one book could be a guide to the autistic, and Temple again, We Learn From Mentors. Finding them is the problem, and there is no one size fits all.

I also think of off grid, food production, elephants eat a lot, and some related economic actions. After more than I would live with, having a Bakery, coffee and tea shop, some place that serves plain food, at all hours, becomes more jobs.

Various studies say the natural size of a village is 200. Big enough to provide basic services, a local market, and small enough to ignor.

200 would be a very small corporation.

Publishing as a Primary Employer, secondary employment in support services, food production, service, fancy pastries and good tea.

I had looked at motels, thinking writers would like to take a tax deductable vacation to visit their publisher. The idea grew, there is more money in S&H, than anyone else makes in books. Order Fulfilment Services are doing well. I have also serviced some small markets on ebay, it pays.

So add a warehouse, more living quarters, larger food service, and those coming to get a Degree in Applied Autism, or an AAA for the younger set.

It is a village with a purpose. It could use some other projects seeking low overhead, which turns into high income for the autistic.

In a past life I was in construction, the ground up, water, sewer, streets, that allows everything else. Something as simple as a trailer park, minus trailers. A campsite with kitchen, bath, and porch for loitering. I am looking at sites with local building material. Stone, timber, and Compressed Earth Blocks, the rest is Lego. One set of machines does cost, but spread over a hundred living units, public buildings, cost per person is low. Some Assembly Required.

This is not Private Property. A lease on good behavior, a job in a Company Town, with a plan for the long term use of the village. Education and Economic Development for all who come after.

There will of course be other land, and the machines to build to suit, which will produce more jobs, and a trained pool of skilled workers. Having built one, it makes sense to build another a quarter mile away.

The Earth can support about one person per acre. More in good times, but when everything falls apart, which happens often in history, an acre, a pointed stick, those survive.

To mis quote Thomas Jefferson, "The only reason for a Free People to do anything is, Enlightened Self Interest."

No other place could educate beginner autistics as well. A short stay in an autistic culture would be enlighting.

No other place could develop employment skills as well. Learning within a common neurology.

No other place could support Autistic Business as well. The whole village has self interest in seeing it work. We have the Venture Capital, Location, and Workers you need.

Because I have invested most of my income in the future, I have the support system for writers. My next step is land, and the machines to build. The Publishing Company lives in a Motorhome, so can I.

I was thinking Writer's Workshops, and Compressed Earth Building Workshops. People pay to attend such things.

Asperger's HFA type Autistics are a rare breed, perhaps several hundred thousand in the US. 200 would be 1/10 of 1% of the market. This group also accounts for most of the Inventors, a lot of writers, and others who do not quite fit in the world.

In one of my first posts here I said, All of these people are perfect and unused parts of something. What it is I do not know, but I am going to find out.



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11 Feb 2012, 1:49 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
I don't think FG as a whole does much... the movie has its roots in ideologies similar to that of Autsprecher. More attention should be given to the possible evolutionary outcomes of auties, though I don't think the information currently exists to accurately predict much...

Is there such information or research being done?


The type of answers that you are looking for in regards to evolutionary outcomes of Auties probably want come to fruition until Autistics do their own research. I'm not familiar with any studies involving the subject matter BUT i would be interested in reading any available information, too.

As far as wisdom from the aspie elders, I'm talking more about remaining productive and better understanding neurotypicals, especially family members. We are often plagued by social difficulties that arise from our differences of perception. An aspie and an NT can have a conversation and each arrive at a different conclusion of the other person's thoughts than was intended. This all arises from the assumptions we form in life due to the way we think and the same is true of the NT.

You are right. Like you suggested; someone would have to write a book, a scroll.

TheSunAlsoRises


I saw someone post something about forming our own charity similar to Autism Speaks. Though not the name they gave it, I would call it "We speak for Autism" or "Speaks for/4 Autism." We could basically raise money the same way Autsprecher does and do our own research and all of the things that support our cultural and evolutionary development and even do Autcentric research into interests such as immortality (I know there must be quite a few immortalist aspies out there), space travel, and such things. The more active we become and the more attention we take from Autsprecher, the more genocide we prevent. Not to mention we will have a vehicle for carving out our own place in society.



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11 Feb 2012, 1:57 pm

Has anyone yet come forward with an offer to pay those who participate?



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11 Feb 2012, 2:03 pm

You have some good ideas inventor.



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11 Feb 2012, 10:03 pm

I pay, and I pay to work here. I invest.

I will be paying if I want to have someone print, bind and ship, keep up the web site, the taxes,

There are several versions, people I never see I pay more. web based contractors do their own taxes. Direct hires I get stuck with the paperwork, they pay in reduced wages.

Farm and ranch workers that get room and board, get paid less. Seamen, food service, food is not considered income, but providing it is an expense. Eating and sleeping on the job is required,

Where it is not, we get Congress, that has a dining room where Prime Rib costs $1.25. Waiters and caddies at the country club work for tips, and getting to meet people.

Horses demand a covered stall, and regular oats, hay, salt. They have a stong Union, and they eat paper money.

Inturns work for free, and feed themselves.

People who attend workshops pay to come. Students pay for education, room and board.

Many have worked mostly for stock options.

There are a lot of ways that exchange work for something.

Cut your timber, work at many barn raisings, your barn will cost you feeding the crew. Labor exchanges are not taxed as nothing changes hands.

In a rural barter exchange, working on your neighbors house, and getting a supply of eggs, does not involve sales tax, and it is not income.

Working for something that will give you food and shelter, and later the right to buy a plot of land at cost, is not income. The same for the use of tools, and having your own house raising party.

This form of labor economy worked well for the last thousand years.

If your goal is to have a freehold, owned free and clear with minor taxes, Control of your own food production, where you can keep most of what you make, this is a good life.

Selling to the Anglish town folk, just double your prices, and let them think that you pay the sales and income tax.

I am looking at developing the new, selling into the major media markets, and there the art of business income tax is highly developed. The customer pays the taxes.

What is good enough for GE, is good enough for me.

Besides the corporate jet deduction, I would go for some Public Service.

I notice no one is providing direct aid to the autistic. Shelter and job training, connecting them with networks that could use some help, youth programs, senior centers,

My first use for the village concept is economic, we need it, but after it is built, and the trained crew and machines still exist, more villages are needed, The Old Aspie Home, Asperger's Children, Autieville,

It is true that only some types are active on the web. There were more old folks than me around, Being old and poor is worse than ever. A low cost senior village is needed.

Brand X had a kid camp program, one kid for a week with a thousand NTs. The Kid's Crater shows that they are quite able to play together. They are us, minus a few years. We might be worth it, so we should give them stuff.

I do not know what auties want and need, but they should have it, because everyone else gets some of what they want and need. If some of us can pass for human for short periods of time, some auties could pass for people who do not live in group homes. Everybody needs at least a vacation.

Auties do maintain their own apartment, they could run a quite walking village, Just by design it can be supported living. The goal is the most freedom, the best quality of life. Group Homes are Social Services answer to their problem. There was no Autie Village, they did what they could. So should we.

What can you say about a minority that does not take care of the young, old, disabled, provide education, economic oppertunity? What could you call them? Autism Speaks?

We were isolated, uneducated, Alex changed that. We now know how we are different, and that it is a lifetime situation. We should be having more fun with it.

No one could develop this neurology but us!

"Ask not what your neurology can do for you, but what you can do for your neurology."



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12 Feb 2012, 2:24 pm

So is that something you are already doing or plan to do inventor?

So are there any ghost writers in your staff?