Wonderful Asperger Poster

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What a lot of nonsense Gedrene (frankly you misinterpret and/or distort every word I, and others have said to the extent that I doubt if you have a real clue what most of us have actually said to you at all)...now, just try the AQ test and see what your score is, it has to sort something out.

Thanks aghogday. Here's something he did right! And I congratulate it! Now can someone actually prove where what I did was wrong? Or can I just ask aghogday for a simple, inoffensive and not so hard to make apology without people presuming to know my body function?

That issue is over with.

I take no offense to any the things you have stated that I did not say or indicate, and don't expect an apology from you, because as far as I know you believe everything you are saying, and it may just be an issue of miscommunication that we all are subject to, whether or not someone has any condition at all.

If you would like to have reasoned conversations on other topics, I welcome that, but my involvement on this specific issue is done.

It's over when the presumably not-very-fat-at-all man sings.


I miscommunicated nothing and heard everything. The problem it seems from all the posts it seems is receptiveness to new ideas. It's good that you didn't take offense at what I said.

Do as thou wilt. I can't control people. I can only ask them.

You're right about the Zeraeph bit. I paste the quote = bit in the code and I was dealing witha message of hers last. Thankyou very much. Well don't worry about it. I will just have to admit a mistake. As for misunderstandings: People misunderstand what advice is.

No problem, I find myself making that mistake as well. And yes I do agree that people misunderstand what advice is, the only way I think people can clear it up is by making a sincere effort to do that, but as in the case of mistakes like mis-pasting a quote, misunderstandings are often not a result of malice.

I don't see miscommunication as a big deal, and haven't found anyone yet, at least human, that doesn't miscommunicate once in a while. The English language is so complex, that it was almost designed for miscommunication. Particularly when there is no human present to give the non verbal signs to amplify the meaning in the words they are stating. It can be tough to do that in a discussion board. There are no eyes to see sincerity in.

I don't need your eyes to see sincerity. In some cultures looking in someone's eyes is seen as insincere. Your grasping as social imperatives will not help anyone. As for the english language we must remember what Terry Pratchett once said: A;; language was probably designed to point out where food was.

Malice plays no part in establishing what one is guilty of saying. I would just prefer if you didn't refer to how my mind works as to how I understand something. If I did the same to you I'd expect you to blast me for that. Do unto others as you expect to be done to yourself. It's an argument and we can't just bandy around saying: It isn't his fault, it could be this. It doesn't deal with the argument at hand. As for an apology, I can't force you can I? So I shall have to accept a lack of it.

Actually I thought you were referring to the advice you were giving others, about sensory integration issues, with respect that you suggested you were giving sincere advice and they didn't see it that way.

Yes, because presuming how my own body works without any actual intimate knowledge is exactly why I am asking aghogday for an apology. Ironic that the first thing you do is the same thing that I am asking aghogday to apologise for and it shows that you have no actual grip on what I am saying.


Presuming to know how another's body or mind works is presumptuous. Making up how someone thinks because of what they are is also cheap. Again it's ironic that you are defending a person for being polite whilst at the same time calling the other side a twit. As for politeness I would like you to find any insults used to describe aghogday, these are words that are not justified by my argument, an argument that you have only discredited by again doing what aghogday did, which is an ad hominem argument, an argument against my person: Not what I am arguing.

Great! More speculation that is unverifiable and unfalsifiable!
Twisting where? Does everyone have to lack giving evidence for everything around here? Or are you just complaining about me because I wont give up asking for something that nobody has proven that I don't deserve

What's transparent are your insults, with your only evidence being that I wont stop: Fool, ignorance, twit, unable to admit to anything. That's real lovely. Can you provide any proof that my argument is wrong without just blowing hot air?


Yes, one-sided 'petulant' squabble where I asked for someone to not speculate about my state of mental health. Truly I am the paragon of selfishness if I ask people to apologise about that.

No, no and no. Unless you have some added aversive phobia none of this actually happens to people like me. The only reason otherwise I can think of is that they are told that it is the case about themselves at which point they believe it and it comes true. Going to a salon or hairsdresser's for me or my friends or a barber's has never been an overwhelming experience. I could only imagine that it would otherwise happen to a kid who was mollycoddled. Psychological conditioning is more to blame for our problems than any inherent disorder.

I am the woman to whom Gedrene replied "no, no and no."

Many people who are autistic do have sensory problems which make having a haircut a difficult experience, adults as well as children. While Gedrene has been able to overcome the problems he has had, that doesn't mean that other people can do the same, nor does it mean that other people don't try.

My son, who is diagnosed with Asperger's under the WHO ICD-10 criteria, and who has been additionally assessed separately as having complex sensory processing difficulties, does have problems associated with having his haircut. This has been an issue since he was a toddler, well before we were aware that he was on the Spectrum or had particular sensory issues. As far as having his hair cut or not, I am not particularly bothered. He is now 9 years old, the same age I think as the child in the photograph, and has decided to have his hair longer and cut his fringe himself, with help from me.

What is more concerning is the difficulties he has with dental treatment, and I am pretty sure but I'm not going to check, that I've seen a number of people here commenting that the sensory issues which make haircuts difficult also make dental check-ups and treatment difficult.

I can only speak to my son's experiences, but I can assure you that these problems cannot be overcome simply by gritting one's teeth (ha!) and getting on with it. When he was 5 years old he had two huge abscesses in the gum above his middle upper incisors. The abscesses were so large that they obscured his front teeth, but my son experienced no pain at all, not even discomfort. His sensory processing issues, which are very real, are such that his pain perception is distorted. He felt no pain from a dental problem which most people would find excruciating, but he could not tolerate the dentist touching his mouth to examine him.

We have a very good, patient and calm dentist, who didn't attempt to force treatment on my son. It wouldn't have been possible anyway to do that as it would have caused more harm than good anyway. My son was well aware that he needed to have this problem dealt with, and that the milk teeth should be extracted. On two occasions he decided that he would be able to go ahead with the treatment, and the dentist gave us an appointment at very short notice when my son was himself motivated to go ahead. On both occasions, the same thing happened. As soon as the dentist attempted to carry out an initial examination my son freaked out.

This is a child who is intelligent, articulate and aware of the need for good dental health and the advantages of the treatment being attempted, but no matter how much he tried and how well motivated he was - it was impossible. We had to rely on intermittent courses of antibiotics to treat the abscesses while we waited for the milk teeth to come out in their own time.

My son currently has a very rotten molar, which will need to be extracted. Dentists in Scotland don't administer anaesthesia, so he has been referred to the paediatric dentist at the local children's hospital to have the tooth extracted under a general anaesthetic.

His sensory processing issues are very real, not the result of "mollycoddling" and not something which can be overcome by "tough love" or determination. I don't think you fully understand what is meant by sensory processing or sensory integration dysfunction. Gedrene talks about having overcome particular fears - that's not what this is about.

This whole thread derail occurred because you presumed to know more about the sensory sensitivities of the boy in the photograph and my son, than the other mother and I do.

Neither of us stated that all autistic people have these sensory difficulties, but it is certainly the case that many do.

You then recommended "tough love" as an option for us to consider with our sons as if you had some special insight into their conditions which we, their mothers, had somehow overlooked or failed to consider. That's presumptious.

You keep talking about "us" and "our problems" and "people like me". You seem to be claiming for yourself the personal and group identity of an autistic person yet you don't yourself experience many of the difficulties experienced by autistic people. I don't doubt that people "like you" have no sensory processing or sensory integration problems, but many people on the Spectrum do.[/.quote]
This whole argument is based on your inability to see that I don't have these 'sensory integration problems' not because I never had them, but because I confronted them and never let anyone decide that I couldn't deal with them. Referencing myself as a reference point by the way doesn't require an interpretation that calls it some sort of projection upon others. It's because I don't like the word Autism or Asperger's syndrome. Autism was originally a word to describe narcissistic schizophrenia and it implies a rigid and unchangeable detachment from the world that I find is a complete load of sociological tripe. And again you presume that I did not have issues because I don't have them now. This rigid-mindedness about seeing everything psychological in 'autistics' as unchanging is infuriating.


Your response is based on the inability to read what I have already written several times and a pointwhich people continue to ignore at their own peril. I confronted these issues and they crumbled early and quickly.


First: When did you actually talk about rotten teeth or abcesses before now? Second: If what you say is true then why did it take months for a mother to notice her son's rotten tooth and abcesses? A son she presumably is in close contact with most of the time. Third: When do serious nerve disorders count as autism? Fourth: Is everything your son has put under the umbrella of autism?

Gedrene, whether you realise it or not, you are not aware of the full extent and impact of the sensory processing difficulties experienced by my son and others on and off the Spectrum. You will find information relating to it on the NAS website which I link to here.

There are many threads on WP about the type of difficulties caused by sensory processing or sensory integration problems.

My son was diagnosed according to the WHO ICD-10 criteria which focus solely on communication difficulties. As I understand it, many of his sensory and motor difficulties would have been included in an assessment under the DSM. As it is, he was referred to Occupational Therapy for a separate assessment for the sensory issues, which include flapping, head-banging, poor co-ordination, balance and muscle tone. He cannot ride a bicycle or go a swing on his own.

None of these issues, singly or in combination, are at all unusual for someone on the Spectrum and if you look you will references to each of these somewhere on WP.

His abscesses were more than likely caused by his propensity to grind his teeth, and before his milk teeth at the front came out on their own he had ground them down so much that they crumbled or broke off at gum level.

He wasn't agitated because his abscesses were being touched by the dentist, he became agitated when the dentist put his fingers either side of his mouth to begin treatment. It was the dentist, not I, who determined that treatment was not possible. I noticed the absesses at an early stage, but as they could not be treated in the usual way they did get bigger before they got better.

He has had one rotten milk tooth, the molar. I check his mouth periodically, but this is not particularly easy and that tooth isn't readily visible being closer to the back. He first reported pain at the end of February - the pain being caused by an infection and exacerbated by his grinding his teeth in his sleep - at about 4am.

That was the first and only time he has complained of pain in that tooth. The infection was treated and hasn't recurred. We saw the dentist later that day and he referred my son to the paediatric dentist. I took him to an appointment there at the end of March, but the x-ray machine was broken, so no treatment was scheduled until an x-ray could be done. After I made some phone calls and wrote to them he was given an appointment last month which he attended and had the x-ray. He is still waiting for treatment, I check on the tooth from time to time, and he is not experiencing any pain at the moment. Last week, I got in touch with our own dentist to see if he can move things along as it is not satisfactory that this is taking so long.

Gedrene, please do some reading on sensory processing difficulties and their close association with autism.

3.Sensory/perceptual abnormalities.
The field of autism has known for many years that the sensory processing systems of people with autism are unusual. We see people with very unusual food preferences, people who spend their time watching their fingers flick, or rubbing textures against their cheeks, or listening to unusual sounds very close to their ears so that they can also feel the vibrations. We know people with autism who don’t respond to sounds the ways others do, causing others to think they are deaf when they have perfect hearing acuity. Some people with autism seem to confuse the feelings of being pinched with being tickled, or appear not to feel pain at all. Others choose to rock back and forth for hours in repetitive patterns. In many different ways, people with autism show us that their differences begin at the level of processing some or all the sensations that impinge on their body every waking minute.

This only further deepens the issue at hand! People are just saying thousands of different things are autism instead of dealing with each issue seperately or at least in more rational groups.

It is a massive failure of any human mind to try and generalize anyone under very large groups in medicine, because it then shows a complete inability to actually do anything to help the person and indeed may lead to people confusing alredy established and separate disorders with autism.

Officialdom as a method of explaining anything as final and indisputable is false. One cannot just quote the DSM or something else and hope to say that's that.