Is it normal to be so terribly tired from the keto diet?

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bethannny
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25 Apr 2018, 9:13 pm

Some background information here. I had to start Keto again after a gynecologist told me in early April I had PCOS and a large fibroid that was causing a stabbing pain. I was at my heaviest weight (190 - 5'7) that I have ever been in years and we both concluded that losing weight would be a good idea. I was not eating that terrible before and I did develop severe diverticulitis last year so I was already being careful but maybe not enough. So I started the ketogenic diet again (I have done it before in 2015 but quit). I have already lost 8 pounds in two weeks but I have never felt more tired and miserable before. In 2015 when I was on it I was fairly grumpy and I remember it being somewhat unpleasant but not like this.

Today for example, I had a hard boiled egg in the morning and then some grilled peppers for lunch. Then for dinner I had chicken, salad and protein pasta with pesto yet I still feel like I have eaten nothing. I have such a miserable feeling inside me that I haven't had in years. I want to quit it but I know I can't. The pain and suffering I had from the PCOS, Diverticulitis disease and the fibroid are enough to scare me to death from running over to the store right now for a large bag of Doritos and ruffles onion dip (if only).

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?



badRobot
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25 Apr 2018, 10:39 pm

Be sure to keep your electrolytes in check, lack of electrolytes makes you feel fatigued and dizzy.

Drink some bone broth, pickle juice or just supplement at least magnesium, sodium and potassium.

Double check for hidden sources of carbs in your food. Some people don't really pay attention to things like ketchup, which might contain tons of corn starch and sugar.

When you are low-carb, but not low enough to be in ketosis, your body will switch to energy-saving starvation mode, it will make you fatigued and sleepy.

Be sure you are not overeating protein.

If you are not tracking your food, I would start tracking what you eat using apps like MyFitnessPal for at least two weeks to get the idea of actual macros in your food. When I was eyeballing my macros I was SO WRONG so many times. After tracking really strictly for a while you can switch to eyeballing again.

I would read FAQ and some articles from sidebar of /r/keto on reddit if you didn't yet.



badRobot
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25 Apr 2018, 10:43 pm

And to answer your question, it is kind of normal to feel weak for a week or two.

But in general it is not normal, on properly executed keto diet you supposed to have more energy as your body constantly burns body fat and should never experience energy deficit.



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26 Apr 2018, 2:07 am

First of all, you don't need to be doing keto.

Second of all, you're not doing keto at all. The ketogenic diet is a high fat diet. Atleast 65 - 70 % of your daily calories should come from fat, 25 - 30 % protein and less than 5 % carb.



badRobot
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26 Apr 2018, 2:46 am

Closet Genious wrote:
First of all, you don't need to be doing keto.

Second of all, you're not doing keto at all. The ketogenic diet is a high fat diet. Atleast 65 - 70 % of your daily calories should come from fat, 25 - 30 % protein and less than 5 % carb.


Not really, there is no "at least" limit on consumed fat on keto. You burn nutritional fat + your body fat, so nutritional fat may be as low as zero. The only required target is to keep carbs below threshold. Moderate protein is recommended, but there are variants with more protein.



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26 Apr 2018, 3:27 am

badRobot wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
First of all, you don't need to be doing keto.

Second of all, you're not doing keto at all. The ketogenic diet is a high fat diet. Atleast 65 - 70 % of your daily calories should come from fat, 25 - 30 % protein and less than 5 % carb.


Not really, there is no "at least" limit on consumed fat on keto. You burn nutritional fat + your body fat, so nutritional fat may be as low as zero. The only required target is to keep carbs below threshold. Moderate protein is recommended, but there are variants with more protein.


That's extremely bad advice as far as I'm concerned. It's unsustainable, and will lead to major hormonal imbalances and rising cortisol.

You burn body fat on any diet, given you're in an energy deficit.



badRobot
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26 Apr 2018, 3:51 am

Closet Genious wrote:
badRobot wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
That's extremely bad advice as far as I'm concerned. It's unsustainable, and will lead to major hormonal imbalances and rising cortisol.


I just wanted to point out that fats are not minimum amount goal, but cap on keto for weight loss. It is still keto as long as you keep your carbs below threshold, nutritional fat is not required to stay in ketosis.

Probably it is a good idea to consume reasonable amounts of fat on keto, but actually I doubt you would encounter any real life negative consequences of eating too little fat on keto unless you strictly limit all sources of nutritional fat to amounts very close to zero. Requirements for nutritional fat for various processes excluding energy are really low and energy needs are covered by body fat.



magz
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26 Apr 2018, 4:13 am

bethannny wrote:
Some background information here. I had to start Keto again after a gynecologist told me in early April I had PCOS and a large fibroid that was causing a stabbing pain. I was at my heaviest weight (190 - 5'7) that I have ever been in years and we both concluded that losing weight would be a good idea. I was not eating that terrible before and I did develop severe diverticulitis last year so I was already being careful but maybe not enough. So I started the ketogenic diet again (I have done it before in 2015 but quit). I have already lost 8 pounds in two weeks but I have never felt more tired and miserable before. In 2015 when I was on it I was fairly grumpy and I remember it being somewhat unpleasant but not like this.

Today for example, I had a hard boiled egg in the morning and then some grilled peppers for lunch. Then for dinner I had chicken, salad and protein pasta with pesto yet I still feel like I have eaten nothing. I have such a miserable feeling inside me that I haven't had in years. I want to quit it but I know I can't. The pain and suffering I had from the PCOS, Diverticulitis disease and the fibroid are enough to scare me to death from running over to the store right now for a large bag of Doritos and ruffles onion dip (if only).

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

How many calories is all this?
The deficit shouldn't be too big, otherwise your body will switch to avoiding starvation mode. That means, shutting down anything that can be shut down, burning the energy-consuming muscles and storing as much fat as possible. Females get into that mode earlier than males.
Check out a calculator like this: https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macronutcal.htm Such calculators are not precise but they can give you an overall idea of how much you should eat.


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26 Apr 2018, 4:40 am

badRobot wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
badRobot wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:
That's extremely bad advice as far as I'm concerned. It's unsustainable, and will lead to major hormonal imbalances and rising cortisol.


I just wanted to point out that fats are not minimum amount goal, but cap on keto for weight loss. It is still keto as long as you keep your carbs below threshold, nutritional fat is not required to stay in ketosis.

Probably it is a good idea to consume reasonable amounts of fat on keto, but actually I doubt you would encounter any real life negative consequences of eating too little fat on keto unless you strictly limit all sources of nutritional fat to amounts very close to zero. Requirements for nutritional fat for various processes excluding energy are really low and energy needs are covered by body fat.


You would, because that's a completely insane deficit.

I usually eat about 100g of protein a day, 100g of protein is 400 calories. If one were to consume low carb and low fat, that could have alot of health consequences, because of the extreme restriction.



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26 Apr 2018, 4:53 am

Closet Genious wrote:

You would, because that's a completely insane deficit.

I usually eat about 100g of protein a day, 100g of protein is 400 calories. If one were to consume low carb and low fat, that could have alot of health consequences, because of the extreme restriction.


Not necessary. On the condition you still consume all the microelements and vitamins and some minimal amount of fats required for cellular synthesis and stuff, which can't be replaced by body fat. As long as you have body fat there would be no real caloric deficit. You would still consume all required calories as body fat 24/7. There would be no periods of energy deficit caused by low blood glucose, so there would be no reason to trigger "starvation stress" mechanisms.



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26 Apr 2018, 5:06 am

badRobot wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:

You would, because that's a completely insane deficit.

I usually eat about 100g of protein a day, 100g of protein is 400 calories. If one were to consume low carb and low fat, that could have alot of health consequences, because of the extreme restriction.


Not necessary. On the condition you still consume all the microelements and vitamins and some minimal amount of fats required for cellular synthesis and stuff, which can't be replaced by body fat. As long as you have body fat there would be no real caloric deficit. You would still consume all required calories as body fat 24/7. There would be no periods of energy deficit caused by low blood glucose, so there would be no reason to trigger "starvation stress" mechanisms.


I'm like 8% body fat. If I eat that little, I can assure you that I don't feel well, regardless of the macro composition.

Very fat people may be able to pull of more aggresive deficits, but I still think this is horrible advice.



magz
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26 Apr 2018, 5:13 am

badRobot wrote:
Closet Genious wrote:

You would, because that's a completely insane deficit.

I usually eat about 100g of protein a day, 100g of protein is 400 calories. If one were to consume low carb and low fat, that could have alot of health consequences, because of the extreme restriction.


Not necessary. On the condition you still consume all the microelements and vitamins and some minimal amount of fats required for cellular synthesis and stuff, which can't be replaced by body fat. As long as you have body fat there would be no real caloric deficit. You would still consume all required calories as body fat 24/7. There would be no periods of energy deficit caused by low blood glucose, so there would be no reason to trigger "starvation stress" mechanisms.

Simply - nope.
Our bodies evolved to survive famines, not to look gorgeous after 3 weeks of diet.
If the body gets an information of big deficit in calories, the famine-surviving mechanisms will turn on at least partially regardless of one's body fat.
And in female organisms the famine-surviving mechanisms are stronger, likely to preserve the ability to get pregnant after the disaster.


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26 Apr 2018, 5:43 am

magz wrote:
Simply - nope.
Our bodies evolved to survive famines, not to look gorgeous after 3 weeks of diet.
If the body gets an information of big deficit in calories, the famine-surviving mechanisms will turn on at least partially regardless of one's body fat.
And in female organisms the famine-surviving mechanisms are stronger, likely to preserve the ability to get pregnant after the disaster.


Starvation mode is tricky. Ketosis makes all the difference. Due to metabolism quirks blood glucose drops makes you feel miserable while you are in glycolysis with huge caloric deficit, it triggers starvation mode, this doesn't really happen while you are in ketosis. There are many experiments demonstrating that eating nothing is easier and less devastating than eating just enough carbs to kick you out of fast-induced ketosis.



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26 Apr 2018, 5:46 am

badRobot wrote:
There are many experiments demonstrating that eating nothing is easier and less devastating than eating just enough carbs to kick you out of fast-induced ketosis.

Could you please bring up some examples of the said experiments?


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bethannny
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26 Apr 2018, 6:00 am

badRobot wrote:
Be sure to keep your electrolytes in check, lack of electrolytes makes you feel fatigued and dizzy.

Drink some bone broth, pickle juice or just supplement at least magnesium, sodium and potassium.

Double check for hidden sources of carbs in your food. Some people don't really pay attention to things like ketchup, which might contain tons of corn starch and sugar.

When you are low-carb, but not low enough to be in ketosis, your body will switch to energy-saving starvation mode, it will make you fatigued and sleepy.

Be sure you are not overeating protein.

If you are not tracking your food, I would start tracking what you eat using apps like MyFitnessPal for at least two weeks to get the idea of actual macros in your food. When I was eyeballing my macros I was SO WRONG so many times. After tracking really strictly for a while you can switch to eyeballing again.

I would read FAQ and some articles from sidebar of /r/keto on reddit if you didn't yet.


I've been drinking vitamin water for electrolytes. I would agree that I'm not in full ketosis as I'm still drinking coffee and not the most strict but something is still propelling the fat loss. I'm losing about 4 pounds per week and I see muscle being built. I expect the loss to level off of course in the next few months but the lower carb aspect is working.

I'm going to try to get more macros. I'll be keeping an eye on things. I woke up this morning feeling less terrible than yesterday but I still feel the ''starving hole'' sensation in my stomach.



bethannny
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26 Apr 2018, 6:03 am

magz wrote:
bethannny wrote:
Some background information here. I had to start Keto again after a gynecologist told me in early April I had PCOS and a large fibroid that was causing a stabbing pain. I was at my heaviest weight (190 - 5'7) that I have ever been in years and we both concluded that losing weight would be a good idea. I was not eating that terrible before and I did develop severe diverticulitis last year so I was already being careful but maybe not enough. So I started the ketogenic diet again (I have done it before in 2015 but quit). I have already lost 8 pounds in two weeks but I have never felt more tired and miserable before. In 2015 when I was on it I was fairly grumpy and I remember it being somewhat unpleasant but not like this.

Today for example, I had a hard boiled egg in the morning and then some grilled peppers for lunch. Then for dinner I had chicken, salad and protein pasta with pesto yet I still feel like I have eaten nothing. I have such a miserable feeling inside me that I haven't had in years. I want to quit it but I know I can't. The pain and suffering I had from the PCOS, Diverticulitis disease and the fibroid are enough to scare me to death from running over to the store right now for a large bag of Doritos and ruffles onion dip (if only).

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

How many calories is all this?
The deficit shouldn't be too big, otherwise your body will switch to avoiding starvation mode. That means, shutting down anything that can be shut down, burning the energy-consuming muscles and storing as much fat as possible. Females get into that mode earlier than males.
Check out a calculator like this: https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/macronutcal.htm Such calculators are not precise but they can give you an overall idea of how much you should eat.


1200 calories (which is normal). It's what was recommended.