Do you think tall people can get away with being very muscul

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This just proves that in our natural hunter-gatherer state, humans were never hulking or muscular. We were skinny distance runners. So being skinny could actually be considered the most "fit" human state (provided the person exercises a LOT - skinny people who sit around wouldn't apply). Hulking muscular guys don't have as much endurance as skinny guys. They would be more likely to be killed because they wouldn't have as much stamina and even with their muscles they still wouldn't be as strong as animals that are designed to be strong by nature.

I'm not against getting a muscular physique. I like lifting weights because it's the only thing I'm decently good at. I just don't think it is really our bodies natural state. In nature we would never have access to enough calories to support the "buff" look that is popular today. Since having large muscles isn't natural for humans, I wouldn't say being massively strong is really the pinnacle of human fitness. Being very muscular is certainly more healthy than being obese, but it still isn't as natural or "fit" as being a scrawny distance runner. But these days the scrawny distance runner isn't the desired male physique. Instead, men are expected to be somewhat buff, i.e. much more heavily muscled than our ancestors ever were.

Actually, I'd say it varies.

For instance, take this old picture of an Aboriginal Australian tribe at first contact:





They look a bit beefier than the stick-thin (but still fit) Africans in the video.

Hunter-gatherers around the world have had various different bodies, but I'd say the ideal body would be a modern equivalent of the most common hunter-gatherer physique - what a hunter-gatherer would might look like if they had access to the nutrition and health that we do.

That is, low body fat, moderate muscular size and strength, high stamina and endurance, fast metabolisms in youth, healthy heart, lungs, arteries, etc. healthy immune system and relatively low risk of most diseases and infections.

That is also achieved by living in a nation that allows access to ideal nutrition, exercise equipment and healthcare, which is what our ancestors obviously didn't have access to.

Diet-wise, I believe any healthy diet high in all necessary nutrients will do. While organic foods aren't necessary, I would recommend occasionally getting organic fruits and vegetables, and other things such as organic tea/coffee, toiletries, tablets, etc.

Exercise-wise, I believe a combination of both exercising in controlled conditions of weightlifting, swimming, running, etc. and a paleo/natural workout by running, jumping and climbing in nature, tree-climbing and using natural things such as branches for pullups, is the way to go.

But this is all just my opinion. As 'naturally' fit as possible without going full-blown survival mode.

I agree about the calories.

So the African men in the video really are a pretty accurate depiction of ancient man physique-wise, but I'd say the more successful tribes would have had enough access to a more fulfilling amount of food, rather than only eating just enough to survive, let alone maintain their current strength.

Of course, strength can also be gained completely naturally, but this is much more difficult and another matter entirely.

I'd say a nice realistic body for young men to strive towards would be their height equivalent of Michael Phelps' physique:



Not too shabby:



What I mean by this is, Phelps is 6' 4'' and 194lbs, ~8% BF.

Since I'm 5' 9'', to look like him I've found out I'd only need to be about 158-165lbs and 7/8% body fat to look roughly the same as he does.

After 1 year, 1 month of proper healthy dieting and exercise, I'm currently about 158 and 10/11% BF - not too far away.

I agree about the media influencing men to be more and more muscular.

It's affected Australia immensely, there's something of an amateur bodybuilding culture that contains the typical steroid narcissistic unhealthily obsessed 'bro' crowd.

You may or may not have heard of Zyzz, but did you know he was Australian, and pretty much the trendsetter for Australia's young beefed up roided curlbro skinny-legged men of today?

Last edited by Outrider on 22 Aug 2016, 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

^^^ my god, even in the military I didn't look like that.

I've heard numerous times from the men on this site that women like taller men. So, assuming that's true, a tall muscular man is going to be more attractive than a short muscular man.

A more interesting question however, is in general, would a short muscular man be more attractive than a tall, skinny man?

To be fair, there's probably more important skills in the military than having the perfect physique.

Yea. It looks like the aboriginal Australians were quite a bit bulkier than distance runners. Probably due to a different environment / lifestyle.

Auntblabby:

Lol, Michael Phelps is much smaller than he looks, I just picked some very complimenting photos. The first one was 2008.



He doesn't look very intimidating NOW, does he?

It depends on the year, really. In recent times he participated in Rio, he's looking quite strong at this point.

"A more interesting question however, is in general, would a short muscular man be more attractive than a tall, skinny man?"

Phelps is tall and slim.

He does have status though such as money and success, but look at the pics and you be the judge if you think women would definitely pick him over a stronger but shorter male.

That's not what I meant by "skinny". I meant not having any muscle definition at all. You have seen those kinds of people before, right?

I would argue that any physical conditioning is going to look attractive on anybody. Athletes come in different shapes and sizes depending on their sport, but I think men and women both benefit from having some form of athletic body type.

It's probably an evolution thing; athletic looks healthy and fit. Everybody likes people that look like they're not going to just keel over and die at any moment. The specifics will be impacted by culture, obviously.

(clicky)different typical body types in various nations

It's an illusion. Those bodybuilder guys do not have the strongest male body type. The circus strongman and the Olympic weightlifter both have very different body types from the bodybuilder. Which do you think could life the most.

The strange thing is, I know some "fat" guys who are very strong. You know those guys who have a barrel stomach? They don't have rippling muscles but they have these really strong bear arms. 50 years ago that type of guy was considered to be a really strong and fit guy by our culture. Nowadays instead of the barrel stomach we have the triangle abdomen tapering down to a narrow fragile, waist. What good is having arms that can lift 100 kg if your waist is too fragile to carry that weight? Nowadays instead of bear arms we have these rippling veiny muscles that are the result of bodybuilders dehydrating themselves.

The most attractive girls aren't necessarily the fittest girls. For various reasons it's healthy for women to have modest amount of bodyfat. Yet in our cultural ideal is for them to be skinny lean sticks.

Remember that what is pleasing to the eye and what is pleasing to the touch are seldom the same thing. i.e. while skinny girls may look more attractive you may appreciate a bit of padding when they're in your arms.Not for everyone. I'm a natural mesomorph. I can gain or lose muscle but I will never be thin because regardless of how much muscle or fat I have I don't have a slender frame. When I get too thin my hipbones stick out because they're wide like the rest of my frame.

Being a scrawny distance hunter may be the pinnacle of fitness if you happen to be an endorphin. They could probably survive a disaster better than I could due to lower calorie requirements and ability to travel greater distances. Who knows what instincts are at play but these days the girls seem to favour the skinny prettyboy types who have have bizarre effeminate haircuts that are short on the sides and poofed up in the middle. In the 1950s girls liked more muscular guys with more sensible haircuts.And neither can I.Not really. We live in our safe-space suburban enclaves. The average man, pitted against a lion or a tiger, would not outsmart him, he would be killed.

We suburbanites. We've forgotten how to hunt. We've forgotten how to farm. We've forgotten how to find safe drinking water. If some disaster were to befall our complex and fragile infrastructure, we wouldn't stand a chance.

People confuse having visible muscles with being strong. Fat bear-looking guys are usually a lot stronger than thin ripped guys with six-pack abs.

Being big and fat and strong doesn't necessarily mean healthy in terms of life longevity though. You can still have health problems from obesity even if you have a lot of muscle mass. I can bench press 100 kg pretty easily, so I'm stronger than average, but I'm not really fit. I have a belly and my cardio sucks.


I don't even find low body fat % visually attractive in women. I prefer a softer look.


I didn't mean having slender skeletal structure. I just meant not having a lot of meat on you. I think I'm an endomorph. When I was 17 or so I was really skinny but still had a 34 inch waist. I have small hands and feet for my size, but my hips are wide. I also think it's impossible for me to look ripped. When I was thin I also had hardly any muscle. I only gain muscle along with fat. When I lose weight I lose muscle along with fat. It kind of sucks.