90% of Aspies can't get a date?

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Well, I wouldn't be so sure about that. I tried civil engineering for a year. At least 75% of my courses were maths and most of my courses had an average of one mathematical proof per page (which equals to about 200 proofs per course that you're expected to reproduce).



... which is one of the reasons I no longer care about purely theoretical maths (even though it used to be my passion when I was in high school). Currently, I'm more interested in human sciences.

I can't really compare that to my own work, because I don't know how advanced the theorems or their proofs are. Just realize that the average beginner's calculus and analysis, or number theory, or abstract algebra textbook also contains about one proof per page (or even two), so this doesn't really tell me much. However, in mathematics you're not only supposed to reproduce theorems and proofs, but also (eventually) to come up with new ones. Furthermore, what would be the use of studying or researching mathematics, if you can come up with equally interesting and advanced stuff in the civil engineering department? Wouldn't make much sense, would it? Close down the mathematics departments, and kick all those lazy, unworldly mathematicians on the street...



Well, from a purely utilitarian point of view this is quite understandable, and I'm not going to discuss here with you why "pure" research isn't a waste of time and money nonetheless, but I should mention that many people (I for instance) disagree with you here.

Obviously. However, I imagine it takes studying hundreds of proofs before you ever get to write an orriginal one of your own.

What I remember about the year I did civil engineering (it's a 5 year course), is that I basically got the majority of physics I got as high school again but then with differential and integral formulae and mathematical proofs. Other then that, I have vague references to linear algebra (focused on advanced matrix calculations and vectors) and splines. I also remember I have to program "Snake" in Java by the end of the year.



Civil Engineering is more complicated not because its maths is more advanced but because it combines advanced maths, advanced physics, advanced chemistry and advanced technical drawing.



Don't take me wrong. I still attribute great value to maths and I wouldn't know how to lead a normal life as an Aspie without the abstract logical skills I learnt in the process, however there comes a point where you've studied more maths than you'll ever need in your life and at that point I decided to shift my focus. I'm currently employed in IT (maintenance of an SAP business intelligence system), though my passion is the area of human sciences.

Certainly true. Many maths students don't even get that far. They usually become "applied" mathematicians, working for banks, etc., or might even end up in some civil engineering department...



Sounds very much like the first year of mathematics, without the splines though. By the way, talented/promising maths students are encouraged to take some physics as well. To put it in a historic perspective: the differential and integral calculus, with their notational apparatus, was invented in the 18th century and was more or less complete by 1800. The proofs came later, around 1850-1900, along with much of linear algebra. In short, the first two to three years of the math major curriculum was completely known before 1940, in addition to much more advanced stuff. However, it's been estimated that more than 80% of the really interesting mathematical knowledge was amassed in the period after 1945. So most of the mathematics that exists you don't get to see during college. In fact, maths is such a vast subject nowadays that it's very hard for research professors to keep up with the research in even a tiny sub-area like bounded harmonic functions.



In that case, I misinterpreted you. I thought you were saying that civil engineering is more advanced because it combines the most advanced mathematics, physics, chemistry, and technical drawing that's availabe today.



Noted. I completely respect that most people have no use for that much more mathematics than what they need in their daily lives. It's just that sometimes I'd wish that this respect were given back to pure mathematicians, because they often need to get all defensive when explaining what they're doing. But then again, I guess professors of metaphysics have an even harder time.

If you say so.... I don't have sufficient experience in this particular area to comment on that.



I doubt especially the level of mathematics and physics is significantly lower as the level would be in respectively mathematics or physics curriculi, however it wouldn't make any sense if mathematics students would get less advanced mathematics

Let me put it this way : my civil engineer friend studies mathematical models for generic 3D surfaces for fun....



Actually, Kantian metaphysics or Vedanta philosophy could be an interesting supplement to science wherever science still fails to provide an explanation. It's not as useless or speculative as it seems to be at first sight....

Forum: Love & Dating
Original Subject: 90% of Aspies can't get a date?
Current Subject: Applied and Theoretical Mathematics as they relate to Civil Engineering

I think, perhaps, we have strayed off topic... just a little bit. ddd, salon - would you like me to split off your entries here into a new conversation for the two of you in the Science subforum?

And regarding the original topic, to LM: can you provide any of these sites you are basing your assumptions off of? At this time, I have yet to see any studies, research, or examples that you have shown that support your assertions - the best credence I can give what you say is that of personal experience and projection upon others at this point, until there is something more substantial provided.


M.

The only reason the topic shifted to maths is Lonermutant's insistance that Aspies are poor at maths and mostly manual laborers. Thus, I believe a split would only be meaningful if Lonermutant's statements that preceded my argument are also included.

You know, I find it quite ironic that this thread tries to emphasize how 90% of aspies can't get a date, and yet another thread titled "I GOT A DATE! Now what?" keeps popping up right next to it. Maybe it author is in the other 10%, but the irony is still there.

Yeah, sorry. I got carried away a bit by salonfilosoof's challenging ideas. On the other hand, I always find it fun to see how discussions can evolve away from the original topic, especially if the original topic seems to make little sense anyway.

From Wikipedia: "Although most students with AS/HFA have average mathematical ability and test slightly worse in mathematics than in general intelligence"
http://aut.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/11/6/547

Man, I'm 28 and I love actions figures.

I had a ball playing with my nephew today (the new Terminator figures are way cool).

While I believe it is probably not far from the truth when you say 90% of AS teenagers can't get a date, I doubt this figure is by any means correct for adults.

You definitely should read the article better, or more objectively.



This is actually better than what I had expected from a socially and emotionally vulnerable group of children. And besides, it appears at the very least to be not very easy to "filter away" the effects of learning disabilities other than those stemming from AS/HFS. Finally, it seems preposterous to me to withhold the 76 percent who don't have a mathematical learning disability the right to prove themselves in mathematics, especially given the following:



To summarize: aspies display all possible levels of mathematical ability, from total failure to high giftedness, just like everyone else. And while the average mathematical ability may be slightly lower than that of the general population, it is in no way certain that this is due entirely to AS/HFA. All this demolishes the stereotype that all aspies are mathematical wizards, but most of us didn't even believe this to start with. But it is equally ridiculous to say that all or most aspies suck at math.

I know this is fairly speculative, but as far as I can tell young people with AS tend to "specialise" in certain areas so anything they're not great at, they may often be particularly poor at. This wasn't quite the case for me because grades were my way of displaying myself competitively, but I hardly even tried when it came to anything requiring physical dexterity ad am still particularly deficient when it comes to drawing things, making things or manual labour.

I agree with Hector. I also think that in a world where socially gifted business leaders want copies of themselves, a young Aspie have no chances.

My weaknesses are anything requiring strong hand-eye coordination and great physical strength so see a lot of similarities here....

It probably depends on personality. Some Aspies will learn little beyond their personal obsessions because they're not interested in it at all, while others manage to build up a fairly decent amount of general knowledge and skills because of their desire to succeed and their drive to compete with the NT world and/or because they shift obsessions every few years rather than sticking with the same obsession their entire life.