Virginity

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Well, prostitutes have had thier place throughout history so I won't argue with that. But as far as the OP and his concern I really don't think he has anything to worry about at this point and I don't recommend a prostitute for him. Now, if his circumstances change, and he post, I may feel differently.

Also, again, I stress I am responding to the OP and his situation. I think it would be great to start a new thread on the ups/downs of prostitution and if it should be legalized. lol

Yes, I was thinking about that too.

Tomorrow a 18 hour long bus trip awaits me, so I'll pull an all-nighter so I can sleep most of my time there. I'll try to summarize all arguments for and against prostitution the most unbiased way possible, and begin a formal discussion on the specific topic.

Something I realized I wanted to say to guys, an interesting thought I had. Imagine prostituting yourselves, but not to other woman but with other men. Would you like having sex with guys? Because that's the way most female prostitutes would feel too, they would do it as a job and not because they want it. More elaborated thoughts on the issue when I post the proper thread, but meanwhile I'll give you that.

EDIT: My internet hates me and after fixing my sleep patterns all-nighters are bow much harder

As I understand it, bad sex for men (presuming that they haven't been coerced into it), generally means "my orgasm wasn't as intense as I would have liked".
Men have to be physically aroused to have sex.
Women don't.
That means that bad sex for us is, at worst, painful, and possibly damaging by tearing things inside our bodies, and at best, goes something like
"I feel nothing... still nothing... still nothing... wait, was that something? No, nothing... oh, he's finished."
It's about as satisfying and enjoyable as rubbing your arm.
Sex where it feels good the whole time is damn good sex.
Sex where you actually get an orgasm is fantastic sex.
Sex where you get an orgasm that comes close to approaching what can be done by yourself- well, I've never had that yet.
And that is why women may not be so enthusiastic about bad sex.

Thank you for that.
I have tried to get my female friends, girlfriend, any girl comfortable with me, to explain to me the sensations that go on for women. my close friend all know about my AS, and are all women, so as long as i dont go blabbing the convos to the world. they feel they can trust me on just about anything, and on stuff like this they humor the lil goofball But no one can explain it to me.
Cause its just different... As i so elegantly put it to them.. my advise to my fellow man
"I have never been on the receiving end of a penis, so i cant tell what thats like, but i cant imagine it feel very good. So that is why if you have a magic touch or gifted tongue, use them. because at the end of the night you will get off, she might not. So help her out so she is willing to help you out again later"

No, it is more like "I am useless and worthless and no one will ever want to be with me"



And yet in long-term relationships, many women feel neglected by their men, sexually speaking.

Men are expected to be more enthusiastic about sex than women - and humiliated if they aren't. Likewise women are expected to have lower sex drives, and humiliated (in different ways) if they have a strong sex drive. So regardless of actual sex drives, all the men are trying to look enthusiastic, all the women are trying to look "meh" about it. But you get into long-term relationships you see that this is not actually the case - gender might have some statistical difference, but not that much.

I just want you to know I agree with you, but you might be surprised to know that we men don't always have orgasms - worse, we can get painfully bent and injured as well by an overenthusiastic partner. (On average, my examples are probably a lot less common than yours.)

This^
I very much agree with Who Am I on the larger scale. Louie CK has a great bit on this I'm going to try to find and link to if it's less nsfw as I remember.

I have what is probably a slightly above average (maybe for my age closer to exactly average) sex drive, but in comparison to the imagined standard for a woman, it's way way above that.

And there is not a lot of media representation of female sexual agency, and with no media representation I don't have a social model to follow which means it gets incredibly awkward, and I feel incredibly bad about myself when I want to have sex and my boyfriend doesn't (usually because it hasn't been very long since the last time).
It feels unfeminine, it feels unattractive, and it makes me feel guilty because I know it makes him feel bad too.

But in my defense, there is a very unequal distribution of orgasms and it's not because he's not good (sex where there is even a likelihood of orgasm is awesome sex), but I think it's because we have this collective idea that sex begins with a mans arousal and ends with his orgasm and that women are just passive vessels who have sex done to us. So it takes much more sex for me to rack up 10 o's than for him to get to 10.

But I've found that the more we talk about gender roles and queerness and what it means to us to be male and female and as we kinda broaden what sex is for us instead of thinking about it as just PIV, that the more we do that, the better the sex gets, the better the relationship gets.

So in a way I think a good solution to feeling self conscious about virginity is to open up that kind of line of communication.
With the caveat that I live in a liberal area and date feminist men so, your mileage may vary.

There is some but it's .... not very realistic, and so it's not really much use.



Do you need a defense?



As far as the ending, it's not entirely cultural. There's a chemical called prolactin that gets released. It causes what's called a refractory period, which women do not experience (at least not in terms of brain chemistry) which is why women are capable of multiple orgasms so much more easily than men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractory ... _%28sex%29

It has other effects too ... it causes drowsiness, reduces social drive, and breaks down dopamine (which is responsible for arousal). Usually I feel sort of high afterwards, but sometimes I feel depressed, which I think is because of the dopamine (which is also a reward chemical, ironically) being depleted.



That's the social model and it frustrates me. But the alternatives all seem to be kinks and many of them seem to be more reflective of male desires, which ruins it, because then it seems like it's not genuine, just a performance of some sort. There's nothing that's really normalized and genuine.

For me, it's desire - lust, even - that's the signal. Mere receptiveness is entirely ambiguous to me; it may indicate desire, or it might just be an attempt to please.



The LGBT community interests me - not sexually, but conceptually. Obviously they cannot go by the standard gender roles - not all lesbians could be passive or they would all be celibate, for example - so they've developed their own. That process interests me.



I think the roles really don't work well at all for people on the spectrum (among others). I think they prolong many people's virginity far too long. 24 was too long to wait, for me. I missed out on a lot, starting that late. And the only reason I didn't wait even longer is because of a woman with a good deal of agency. But most woman seem to feel ashamed about having any.

I guess I shouldn't need one, but I feel like I do which is essentially the issue.
This is the longest "straight" relationship I've ever been in and the only time I've willingly had sex with a man. It's a fun and frustrating learning experience. I know about the chemicals in play, it just feels like I'm completely out of the decision making loop when his anatomy decides the start and end point. That's why I think it helps to expand what "sex" is, I think for young people especially it's piv oriented to the exclusion of other things that don't depend on male arousal. Heck, it's no wonder men can feel anxious about their virginity when all the agency is in their hands.
Strict gender roles and expectations are the enemy of good sex and communication is more important than reputation.

Okay guys, I think this is a good debate but maybe we should start a new thread to discuss it on?
Just feel sorry for the OP, asking a simple question and getting all this information and opinions

I was aware of that. That's why I said "generally", so that people wouldn't think I was trying to proclaim universal truths.

I have mentioned at least twice that this should be moved to another thread because it's way off topic. lol Maybe your pleas will work!

10 pages and no one has moved an inch on it...maybe it'll happen

I'm also 25 and a virgin. I've never had any romantic contact outside of a computer and a phone.

Not looking like I'll be having sex for another year or three, depending on if I find a noose.

You're ahead of me, then, in terms of romantic contact.

Oddly, I don't feel ahead of anyone or anything.