Encountered a pair of Pick-Up Artists last night.

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03 Nov 2013, 1:28 pm

Not sure there is a suggestion that anyone shouldn't be held responsible for their actions (!?) however I think judging people harshly and by your own standards when you don't even know the story is shortsighted and prejudiced. I have not once suggested that the women in the OP story should not be held accountable but I do harbor suspicions as to what kind of men they were dealing with and maintain that if they were the kind of guys I am thinking of and the women were the kind of women I am thinking of, then it's really not as easy as you suggest.

I'm bored of repeating myself though so will bow out of this conversation... but I leave you with this scenario

a foreign friend of mine was visiting me and another friend in London (all three are females) we went to a club to dance. My friend was looking to have good time, and she hadn't had a boyfriend in a long time so when a guy (who I immediately sized up as PUA) approached her, I was like, NO, do not go ahead with this girl. She wouldn't listen to me. She wouldn't listen to our other friend either who agreed with me. Now, this is my friend who I love dearly and no matter how pigheaded and stupid she was being, I was not going to let her get hurt. So, we let her kiss the guy etc, and then he walked out with us and she was about to invite him over because he was going on about how it's not possible to come to his house and other crap. Anyway, at this point I decided to step in and save my friend from herself by basically trapping the guy into revealing that he was married and had children at home. It wasn't difficult, he was already drunk and on drugs and I was completely sober. My friend was devastated. I kid you not - all that time she thought he was about to get herself a boyfriend. She was proper disappointed and just kept shaking her head how she didn't see it.
So yeah, I will help a friend again like this if it ever came to that again and would hope someone would do the same for me if I was too stupid to act in my own best interest.

aspiemike
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03 Nov 2013, 1:40 pm

redriverronin wrote:

Its always funny to me that westernised women will find 1000 reasons to f**k some random loser but. When it comes to being a good wife and mother though no cant think of anything but bad decisions. The OPs post just shows that women love being put in bad situations and when in those situations because of the culture here in the west are almost encouraged to make bad decisions now. Women are taught that their emotions are important and never wrong when 95% of the time it exactly the opposite. Women and men both have been so socially messed up and taught to do everything wrong in the west but people are staring to come to their senses thank god.

Something tells me this is rebel like behaviour that is being described. Some grow out of it, some don't. However, we seem to have too many people in this side of the world that would rather justify action than take responsibility for actions made. Big difference between justification and responsibility as well.

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Stalk
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03 Nov 2013, 1:58 pm

leafplant wrote:

Your friend went with a mindset to sleep with this guy, consensually because he could be a potential boyfriend material, the only clueless part would have been the he would take off after he slept with her. This is the point we are raising with the OP and now with you too.

Yuzu
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03 Nov 2013, 2:09 pm

leafplant wrote:

I said it's BS that the married woman in the op's story try to put responsibility on him. And you said it's not BS so naturally I thought you were saying it's ok to not take responsibility for their actions.

As for your friend's situation, she would do it again when you're not around to save her. Maybe she should learn it the hard way.

Last edited by Yuzu on 03 Nov 2013, 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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03 Nov 2013, 2:10 pm

leafplant wrote:

I can't see how this is relevant to Yuzu's point.

shadetree
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03 Nov 2013, 3:26 pm

WOMEN! You are not going to get a boyfriend by sleeping with a dooder the first night you meet them at a nightclub! Never! One night stand, yes. Ongoing physical affair, yes. LTR, no. I think sex is a healthy, natural thing, and it's hard to find a healthy LTR, so casual sex with someone you are attracted to is nothing to be ashamed of. Men want to get laid. Women want to get laid. Sex feels good! I don't see the shame, though Puritan and Catholic values seriously have screwed up our attitudes toward sex.

Women, if you want to make sure a man is interested in you as a person, as well as a body, make them wait. A buddy who is just interested in hitting and quitting, will not wait out 3 days. They tend to lose patience after the first night. Dance, sure. Kiss, yes. Groping OK, Get them riled up and wanting more, but tell them "I'm a good girl" and make them wait. This is how the game works. Anyone who is actually interested in you FOR REAL, will call you again, meet you again, write you notes, try to win your affections. This is how you know the man actually really likes you. I personally would suggest making sure you see where they live, and that they see where you live, BEFORE sexy time.

If you give it up on first meeting, you are out of running for LTR... you are piece of ass... that's just how it goes.

Shau
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03 Nov 2013, 3:27 pm

For the record people, neither Ms. Guatemala nor Ms. Laos tried to shift any responsibility onto me. Wanting me there in case things go bad is not the same as shouldering responsibility onto me.

Also for the record, I don't consider them blameless either. Most of the phone call with Ms. Guatemala was me digging into her head trying to figure out why she didn't resist him when she clearly had many opportunities.

leafplant wrote:

Sorry you had to find out this way that racism is rife in the world. More to the point, why are we not taking issue with Shau for exploiting this fact- he was boasting about how well he was doing as a white man in a culture where paler skin is seen as superior. That's supporting racism the last time I looked.

I think you're mistaking "racism" for "classism". Also, kind of hard to "exploit" it when you find out about it after the fact.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

"You go girl" even for the married one? Notice that I said nothing about the single one.

Honestly if Ms. Lao wants to get seduced by a player on her own accord I would have handled that a lot better, but watching my friend (and colleague) cheat on her husband really jolted the f**k out of me.

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I agree that the OP shouldn't care, he is projecting this woman's infidelity on his gf - and that would lead nothing but to mess.

Yea we've since calmed down. I have outbursts. Thursday triggered one. It's over, business as usual.

redriverronin
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03 Nov 2013, 5:04 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

redriverronin wrote:

Shau wrote:

The reality is that there's a whole spectrum, with one end being rape, and one end being total consent. These guys were being coercive, deceitful, and "assertive" enough to prompt my friend to whisper a concerned "[Shau] don't go home tonight" into my ear. I think that starts to make some serious headway into the "rape" end of that spectrum.

The line between rape and non rape is so thin its might as well be made of air which is why feminists say we live in a rape culture. Women I have encountered a large number of women who have rape fantasies and that is big problem with western women that you damn near have to rape a woman to have sex with them consensual now. People wonder what has happened to the decent men now they turned into borderline rapist because that is what women want in western cultures. Because a large number of men aren't men anymore women are desperate for a man who knows he is a man and takes what he wants.

Since the line is so thin though many people will cross the line because that is what women want and being able to know what is rape and not rape is very hard when women have blurred the line as bad as it is now.

There was a study showed that only the group of male rapists get aroused over hearing certain recordings (I forgot what were those but I guess descriptions of rape cases), while the other group of men didn't.

That indicates that being rapist is a deep mental/psychologist condition (could be innate or developed or both), not everyone can get aroused while assaulting over someone being assaulted, he/she needs a certain messed psych and criminal mind to be abled to get an erection/arousal at that moment- it has nothing to do with how women function is some culture because it exists even in the most conservative cultures. So don't mix separate issues, like pua and rape altogether and the line is never thin at all. It's like saying the line between pedo and not pedo is thin.

I think you missed my point the line in the western cultures has been blurred by the fact that a large number of western men have been made to feel almost like criminals for being men not being rapists but men. Women want men to be men and because so many of them aren't they are left wanting and that strong desire makes them respond to men who are more and more forceful. If you go by what feminists see as rape then simply talking to or looking at a women can be considered rape. They are trying harder and harder to expand laws to fit their views of rape while women are chasing after men who act more psychopathic in nature. You cant just use a magic word like pedo to make a point about lines because no one thing is the same most time laws and social views of pedophilia have stayed steady since forever. While laws and social views on rape are blurred by both side are so distorted its borderline ret*d.

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03 Nov 2013, 7:24 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Yuzu wrote:

Those girls were enjoying themselves but felt guilty about it so they pretended that they were concerned. I hate it when people act like that.
If they were genuinely put off by those guys they could've just ignored them or left the party.
If I were their friend and had been there I would've called them out on it.

Exactly what I have been saying but I don't think any of them was feeling guilty, the married felt "guilty" because she was caught by Shau and his reaction scared her (ie. omg he's gonna tell hubby!).

I am glad to see another female user who's not throwing all the blame on the guys.

That's certainly a possibility. But it would look as if you are arguing it is the only one, and the absolute truth of what happened there, when in the end it's just that, a possibility.

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Yuzu
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03 Nov 2013, 7:26 pm

Shau wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

"You go girl" even for the married one? Notice that I said nothing about the single one.

Get used to it. I was like you when I was younger. I despised people who cheated on their spouses but now I'm indifferent about it.
As long as they are admitting that they have low moral standards and NOT trying to justify their actions in any way, I'm ok with it.

Kjas
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03 Nov 2013, 11:36 pm

I think as shau said - there is a difference between deflecting responsibility and needing back up. There are occasions when if some really isn't listening to the answers that I have given them and I have tried to move away or back to my group to get rid of them ,and I came there with the group and therefore must go home with them, that one of the guys must step in to back me up before said person will leave me alone.

We really have no way to know if these guys were respecting their answers, but at least in one of the women's situations from the op, I suspect not.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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04 Nov 2013, 2:45 am

^ lol they were kissing. Yuzu nailed it right here, both were clearly enjoying their time with those guys, including the married woman.

JanuaryMan
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04 Nov 2013, 6:17 am

Reading back through the topic, I think Yuzu covered what I was trying to say from the beginning, albeit a lot more concise.
And to expand on Boo's points, those women are not your GF, Shau.

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Encountered a pair of Pick-Up Artists last night.