Encountered a pair of Pick-Up Artists last night.

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Kezz, you are my heroine. I so agree. Take no crap.

Shau - right, some idiot has come along and in one evening has weakened your world view, and cracked your frame.

Remember I said that I didn't like something before? Why am I not surprised by this.

Listen to Boo - he speaks truth.

We are talking about a a grey area where yes and no blur. It's very NT. You're putting an interpretation on it that is leading you to feel insecure in your own mind.

'Rack Off' Kezza, for instance, clearly doesn't sit in grey areas. Many people can.

I'm going to reread your first post, Shau.

Last edited by octobertiger on 01 Nov 2013, 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

JM, no doesn't always mean no. Context, person, situation, tone, body language, timing, and 101 different things.

An aspie's nightmare.

No always means no, it's just that in this case the women probably sold Shau a different story and once they were out of site said "Yes". If you start teaching Aspies that "No" can sometimes mean "Yes" it's a recipe for disaster and takes the other person's wishes or their right to have their freedoms respected completely out of the picture.

You're still new here, mate. You'll get used to being around emotionally unstable wrecks like me hanging around this part of the forum. Baby's first forum drama!



C'mon mate, you'd have to be dense to think it was about something as stupid and simple as that. This is about mixed messages.

For f**k's sake, I'm more than happy to "go for it", but I get sick of being told (and now understanding quite viscerally) that women have very real reasons to fear me as a male, THEN turn right around and melt for a guy who rushes past every boundary she sets.

It's too f*****g confusing. I'd happily pounce a girl. BUT GIRLS KEEP TELLING ME NOT TO!

Last edited by Shau on 01 Nov 2013, 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Please do not understand me on this.

In a binary world, or a binary situation, of course no means no. In a logical and literal world, where most male posters here seem to live, of course no would mean no.

Aspies cannot taught that no means anything other than that, otherwise they would have to start grasping complex situations. And women. And women differ so much, and people differ so much. There's so many variables.

So, no doesn't always mean no - it can mean 'not now' or 'show me more about yourself'. It might mean backtrack and go again later (depends on the person). No with a laugh and a look might mean something different. Of course, no can bloody well be no!

What you are saying - yes, I agree, it's a potential recipe for disaster. Absolutely. Sometimes. And sometimes, it's a recipe for a future marriage, or something positive. Teaching anything else without the understanding behind it could be dangerous. I find it easier now, but I'm an aspie cross-breed, for heaven's sake. It goes to the heart of male aspieness.

In Shau's case - I don't know. He is taking a situation and using it to judge his own relationship. All three women are different. These PUAs and their influence might seem threatening, but if they had fallen flat on their faces (which they often do), he wouldn't feel so intimidated.

EDIT - I am talking about social interraction here. I am NOT talking about an overt sexual situation. It's obvious - in such a situation when a woman or man or barnyard animal says no, anything else but taking a no as no is very dangerous. We are talking harrassment, or far far worse, and if such a person ends up in a little cell with bars and a cellmate called Hector, then it serves them jolly well right.

Last edited by octobertiger on 01 Nov 2013, 10:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

Look, it's cool, and please don't think I'm having a pop. Tell me this, is this all happening in the States, or another country?



Exactly. No logic. Suspend logic and self-criticism.

I would suggest that pushing boundaries creates drama - excitement - a rush. For some, that can be intoxicating. Like a roller coaster ride - where will it end?

Also, don't forget the power of the situation that was created. It's like a game. People love getting caught up in games - they forget themselves.

But you can't complain - it's another mind game, and you're not adverse to using them yourself?

Last edited by octobertiger on 01 Nov 2013, 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Right but....you have a girlfriend, why should it matter what the other taken women do? Why does it matter that these guys are more successful than you (with taken women no less)? Perhaps I'm overthinking this but I don't think your actual problem here is with the morality of what happened or the perceived blurry lines.

Like I said, they said one thing to you then in private did something else. It has nothing to do with women's safety here.

You have to make a distinction - there are good reasons women need to set boundaries and why they should be vigilant. Just because your friends were dishonest so they could get some quick action away from home doesn't change that. If someone decides to break rules or go against a code it doesn't mean that the rules don't exist any more.

New Zealand. For what it's worth, I tend to have pretty major emotional outbursts. Life hasn't been kind to me in the past.



OH GOD I JUST DON'T WANNA f**k AROUND WITH ALL THIS s**t.

Why can't I just have a relationship where I'm allowed to be a bit unpredictable and make surprises, and be a bit forward at a pace, but then there be these unmistakable lines that you just do not cross? Seeing guys cross those lines or doing what women tell men not to do and then succeeding in the process sows all manner of confusion, frustration, and anger in my heart.



If you didn't have this detail, this part wouldn't make sense so I'll fill you in here. Basically, my GF has been pretty prude on me. Now I have no issues with that, but there are all kinds of doubts sown into my heart when I see my GF and Ms. Laos both espouse the same views, but then watch Ms. Laos completely melt from a guy that just goes for it.

It just makes me think....is that what I should do with my gf? She said the same things as Ms. Laos, would she also melt? Is that what it'll take to turn her on? I'm so confused....

Last edited by Shau on 01 Nov 2013, 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

So it boils down to frustration? I see. Well, have you and your GF come to any compromise on intimacy?
It just seems odd that this is an issue in a genuine relationship where asexuality is seemingly ruled out.
Things like kissing, holding etc. without asking is kind of regular behavior in a lot of relationships from the man or the woman.

As for having to be like those guys. No you don't have to be like them. Not everything works the same way. You are looking at the situation purely from the perspective of the PUA and their "success" that evening and applying it to everything else. What I would suggest is talking intimacy and spontaneity over with your GF. What happened in that club is a completely different ball game and it is best to treat it as such. It's external from your relationship. It is your relationship you need to figure out exclusively. I could say more on the matter but I think I'll leave it there. There's things people have to figure out for themselves and this is one of those things. Sorry about the edits.

Last edited by JanuaryMan on 01 Nov 2013, 6:34 am, edited 2 times in total.

What it boils down to is it feels like my girlfriend is telling me to do the exact opposite of what she secretly wants me to do, and that's the reason why our relationship has lacked sexual passion. She's had sexual relationships before so I presume she's not asexual.

Pull up a chair and have a beer.

I remember being young, irritatingly naive and saying pretty much the same thing, over a beer, to a barmaid in her late 40s. It poured out of me like septic, frustrated bile. I was so frustrated - a game had been played on me (in truth, I had kind of brought it on myself) by a doe-eyed stunner and I didn't know how to deal with it. In fact, I couldn't even read it.

She told me kindly that the games never stopped, there were games within games within games. And not to take it so personally.

Shame it took me so long to listen to the last part of that.

What you'd ideally want to do might not be applicable to the situation and the person you are with. Accept that. They are not some blank canvas for you to do the ideal to. Do you really know the girl you are with? It doesn't seem like you do.

Last edited by octobertiger on 01 Nov 2013, 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

unless of course it is your crush... right?

Not sure I quite grasped the moral of this story.

No, and I think that's the trouble, Shau.

Learn who your woman is.

Tiger out. I wish you well.

Slaps don't seem to work here, maybe I should bring my boxing gloves?

Or someone I have previously cleared to touch me.

Once you have clearance from me to touch me I don't bite (unless you say please).