Quoted: "Do you even understand why people get together?"

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I think the real problem is that I had no proper sources to learn from, that is, how to attract and retain a girlfriend.

I couldn't ask my parents. The first time I told them that I was "looking forward to meeting new girls in high school" (that's age 14 thru 18; I was 13 at the time), they started laughing, and continued for at least 5 minutes. I took it as a hint to NEVER talk to them about dating/girls/relationships again. Which I did: to this day, they never met anyone I ever dated, and I'm pushing 40 now. They don't even know where and how I find women; they vaguely know I take dance classes and/or dance with the women in bars, but that's about it.

I couldn't ask my therapist. When I told her I wanted to have a girlfriend, also at age 13, she stared at me with that "aww, that's so cute!" (read: pathetic) facial expression. I took it as a hint that she also wanted me to stop talking about girls. In retrospect, she may have been Red Pilled before its time: she knew that an ugly beta male like me didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of finding a girlfriend at a young age. She just wasn't going to tell me that, preferring to let me fail, then rhetorically ask "how did it make you feel?" when I shared the failures with her.

I couldn't learn from books or the internet. It was year 1997. The internet as a whole was in its infancy. The Red Pill or the PUA didn't exist yet. My school libraries obviously didn't carry books on equivalent topics, and I was very embarrassed to ask for such books in my city's library (there was a slim chance that it did carry them). The few books I came across didn't teach me anything I didn't already know. Or worse, they gave Blue Pilled (in retrospect) advice, like "just be nice", or "give her flowers", or some other crap I now know to be blatantly wrong.

So, all I had were teenage sitcoms and observing classmates, including the friend who asked me the title question. Both of which misled me in ways unimaginable. The sitcoms censored the truth (because "family shows"), and my classmates had an unfair advantage of good looks and a car. So when my first girlfriend*, came along, I was working with a very limited set of "how to" information, not to mention having an ugly face and no car. So no wonder I jumped at the first girl who showed interest.

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* "girlfriend" -- I'm using this term retroactively, since that's what I though of her as. In reality, she was a friend at best, and a waste of time at worst. Not only did she not kiss me, she didn't even dance in a snuggle with me.

I can't agree with some of your words, but in some things you are right. People need to be social, and they depend on the opinion of others. But I think it's more involved in choosing a partner but not starting relationships. Our society has some ideal of beauty and character. And these things involved on people so much

After being away from this thread for a few days, I started thinking: WHAT IF schools (where most NTs find their first relationship) had no date-centric events, like dances and such? And let's say bringing a date to school events just wasn't a part of the unwritten rules. Although having a romantic partner would still boost one's social status, because of evolutionary instincts, not having one wouldn't bar you from coming you any events; you'd just come, and that's that.

Would school-age relationships still be as prevalent as they are now, as guys would still want to find a sex partner? Or would school kids be more blasé about getting into a relationship, because the social pressure to have a boyfriend or girlfriend to go to events with wouldn't be there? (I'm sure the pressure is much stronger for guys, due to their attractiveness being tied to their social status and the impossibility for two straight guys to dance with each other.)

I'm a relationship focussed person. I have an innate desire for a relationship. It wouldn't make a difference to me.

It sounds like you don't have that desire..and are therefore confused by why people get together.

Likely, yes. Even in entire cultures where dating is frowned upon, teens will still “hook up” even if it means sneaking out for a late-night tryst.

My high school forbade dances on school grounds during the height of the sexual revolution, thinking this puritanical policy would eliminate teen pregnancies. It didn’t. The principal who enacted the policy was replaced the following year.

Last edited by Fnord on 22 May 2022, 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

Adolescents still want to get together. You can’t prevent that feeling. It’s natural in a biological sense.

This was basically the plot of "Footloose": a very uptight village prohibited all forms of dancing, especially partner dancing. Well, a group of teenage Rebels fought back against the anti-dance Empire by organizing a dance party in a grain mill just outside the village borders.

Still, in whatever self-organized dances that happened outside the school grounds, was there an unwritten social rule requiring all students (or at least just all guys) to come with a date? Or could students come to simply hang out and enjoy the scene, like coming to a dive bar as an adult.

(Explanation: the capitalized terms are references to "Star Wars".)

No, but there were a lot of unattractive people who did nothing to make themselves attractive, and who also blamed non-existent and “unwritten” social rules for causing their self-generated grief and anxiety.

So, I lived in Scotland as a teenager and we had ceilidh's. You didn't need a date to go, but that certainly didn't stop teenagers being interested in each other. You definitely wanted your crush to ask you to dance.

What's with all this crap about cars? No woman I have ever known, myself included, has ever given a crap about whether their partner has a car or not. I I have lived in areas both with and without decent public transport and this has always been the case.

Here at my college, I know heaps of guys without cars, who are chubby and not conventially attractive. But many of them have very sweet, and very pretty girlfriends, because they are nice, upbeat people, and because they share each others' interests.

As for prom/winter dance - jesus, heaps of people go without a partner. Or even if they do have a partner, they often are just buddies, not dating. Personally, I went to my prom without a partner, as did maybe 30% of other kids I knew.

I'm in college right now, and yes, the norm is often to bring a 'plus-one' to many events, but there's literally zero expectation that you should be dating that person. Most people just go with one of their friends. It's just so that people can get the chance to socialise with others outside their usual sphere, and so that people turning up will at least have one person they know there.

Jesus christ. You can't just treat people like vending machines or something and tick off a bunch of boxes.

Probably the reason single people are 'encouraged' to stay away from you is because you don't enter relationships with a genuine interest, you just want to tick off boxes. But most people DO want a relationship for love, so you aren't compatible with most people.

This is probably a US thing. In the area I lived in during high school and college, if you were a guy without a car, you didn't deserve to even think about dating girls. Australia may not be as bad in that regard, but it's nowhere near as pedestrian-friendly as Europe for sure. Today, I live in a suburb, but it's old, built-up, and city-like; it has a train station, narrow streets full of small businesses, multistory buildings, and sidewalks in most places. (Most US suburbs are nothing like this.) Also, you're a woman: the final say of whether or not a date happens rests with you, regardless of your rejection criteria; men don't have such a luxury.

Well, today, I get it. But remember: she was my first girlfriend; I had no information to work with other than the TV shows I watched, and they all preached "cars, cars, cars!". So when she flat-out didn't care that I didn't drive, I had no choice but to date her, because 99% of girls at the time did care. Well, today, in 2022, America has become more pedestrian-tolerant (not so much pedestrian-friendly), so not having a car isn't the Mark of Cain it once was. But it's still a hindrance, except in New York City.

What I said (about the 30 women, thousands of times) is true. I had steady girlfriends in that time, with whom I would have sex almost every day, with the relationship lasting a number of years.

Of course, there were like 10-15 women with whom I had sex only once.

I do confess that I have not had sex in about a dozen years. I only have an “excuse” for about 10 months.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 22 May 2022, 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Almost every day??

Yep. That is true.

That’s a lot!

"Thousands" of times of sex seems a bit rich, imo.
A thousand times is more realistic to me.

It is doable, but wouldn't a man's penis be worn down to a "nub" by then?
Perhaps we should call KK "Nubby".