What I hate the most.

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I've been trying to get back to replying to you, but kept getting side tracked while dealing with accusatory posts..

I would consider myself extremely lucky if any of my female friends ever made a "More than just friends" interest known. I certainly wouldn't turn her down. The fact is, if she is already my friend, then we already know a lot about each other, what each of us likes or dislikes, and it's easier to build on that foundation. But I've never had this happen.

The only female friend I've got who I had no interest in a relationship with her to begin with, is married, so I would never get involved even if she did make it known to me that she wanted something other than friendship. All my other female friends just use me as a sympathetic ear to listen to them when their boyfriends mistreat them. They never stop to consider that maybe talking to their boyfriends about me is a bad idea?

No I'm using that a lot because I kept being accused of not treating them like human beings.

You are meant to get to know her on that date.

That or you can try getting to know them and then complain about being shutdown after spending x amount of time getting to know them

Again most dates have some sort of pre date which consists on cofee which is where you see if you two could stand a longer amount of time around each other on a more elaborate date.
Im not aware of the prices of coffee where you live but Im going to take a leap and assume you can afford paying for that coffee.

If this is done with girls you barely know then its safe to assume that its for dating purposes yes.

Its been a while since I had a proper date(I asked a girl while I was horribly drunk she didnt talk to me for months Ive been a little scared of asking girls out since that one) but I can tell you that the last date I had was with a girl that asked me out and she asked me out because we had some friends in common and she thought I was a nice guy.
We both went to a school full of bad boys(my parents had the great idea of putting me in the most strict school in the city where most of my class mates where posh boys trying to show how though they were...) and her exact words where that I seemed like a nice guy and we should get coffee sometime.
Im not going to say that this happens frequently or that this is the norm but try to avoid changing into something you are not and dont focus so much on finding a partner right now(friendships arent that bad you know?). Sorry but as other members have pointed out you sound very upset about the whole thing and while you have every right to be upset most girls will see through that and avoid you because of your attitude.

I have said this before: you are coming across as feeling quite entitled, this is part of the problem I think. No one owes it to you to date you. Women are allowed to respond to an invite to get to know you better and then decide they don't want to date you. They are also allowed to want some males as friends and only a select few as potential mates, that's normal behaviour. The fact that you only want women in your life for romance does not change that. If you really feel that way about women, you might have better luck picking them up for one night stands in a bar or something and seeing if you can turn the one night stand into something longer. That would be a more realistic way of demonstrating your intentions to women you meet.

You've had a lot of useful advice in this thread and all you seem to want to do with it is refute it in an angry manner. Think about it: is it more likely there is a problem with all women you have encountered or a problem with you?

Another thing - there is no point trying to act out being a 'nice guy' in order to rope women in, it should be a prerequisite to treat women well and everything else is a bonus. Yes, women (well, everyone) want to be with a nice person, but this is the bare minimum needed, and there are a hell of a lot of guys out there (thankfully) who manage this because they understand it is the morally right thing to do rather than because it seems like a good tactic.

rabbittss, I thought of something else, maybe it'll be helpful?

There have been men in the past that I've briefly dated or gotten to know as friends who have shown absolutely no sexual interest in me whatsoever, that I could gauge (okay, so I'm an Aspie, and probably not very good at that kind of gauging). Because I sensed no sexual interest whatsoever, I stopped trying to develop any kind of romantic relationship with them (or I just went on being friends with them, the way we were before). I didn't set out to "friend zone" them (and I agree with hyperlexian, I think that's a term based solely on selfish male dynamic), our relationship, our *friendship* merely developed that way.

If one of them, all of a sudden, out of the blue (and I realize that "out of the blue" for me could be "totally obvious progression" to someone else) started trying to change our relationship to something romantic, especially after a short-term friendship, I would be repulsed. Not because the man was repulsive but because I simply cannot recast him in a romantic light once I think that that's not an option. Plus, I would be instantly thinking, "Has he pretended to be my friend all this time, just to ultimately get into my pants?"

I wonder if you have some of this going on, without your realizing it. I suspect so, based on what you've written.

Why is it that I'm trying to 'Rope them in' by being who I am?

I can't just not be who I am.

I'm not entitled, I don't feel it's owed me that they want to be involved romantically with me. I simply want them to realize that if they aren't interested in me as anything other than friends I would appreciate them letting me know ASAP. Preferably before I begin to get really interested in them. I wait to long to ask them out, but they wait to long to let me know they aren't interested.

For the record, I've had no better luck simply asking people out on dates either. My recent encounter with Online dating proved that. I talked to her for a minimal amount of time, just a handful of messages, before I asked her out, and instead she simply disappeared and quit talking to me. That's just as common as the other problem. So I'm left wondering then, if I'm so undesirable, why do so many women want to be my friend?!

I never once said I didn't have some kind of problem. I even pointed out that since I'm the only common factor, then I must be the problem. But why wouldn't I refute accusations of misogyny or hatred of women with anger?

It's probably half and half. In fairness I don't see too many of the women on here trying to see his viewpoint either, most of them (and some of the guys also posting here) have shot him down without really taking on board what he's trying to say and seem to assume that all of the girls in question he's complaining about can't do anything wrong and nothing is ever their fault.

I'm probably the only person who has got some sympathy for OP here, even though he clearly needs to change his attitude, it's obvious (to him at least) that he feels he can't do right for doing wrong, & the entire dating game is a complete double edged sword at the moment.

Last edited by Daemonic-Jackal on 23 Jan 2012, 1:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

That's true. I think that could be maybe, partly it. Friends are great, but basically I don't set out to find friends who are female. It happens by unhappy accident. I don't tend to be able to stay friends with them, barring a few exceptions, because I get so tired of them trying to help me get girlfriends when that was the whole reason I talked to them in the first place.

I realize that I'm going to get in trouble for saying this.. but I suppose thats a different dynamic between males and females. I can re-cast my view of almost any female into a romantic mindset, provided I don't cringe when i look at her, or obverse every time she opens her mouth and emits something resembling speech.

I have to admit to finding you quite difficult to understand... you like and respect women, but you wouldn't bother approaching one just to discuss books and music? eh? I'm out.

Okay, my main point was just that its important to treat people well because its the right thing to do. The whole 'nice guys finish last' trope is inaccurate and can at times be misogynist/whiny. Some guys manipulate women (not nice) and get laid. Other guys do not mistreat women and get dated/laid less than they otherwise would because they are unlucky in other departments, like looks or intelligence. Other than that, I firmly believe that the saying is not true.




I'm glad you see there is most likely an issue with you in the situation. A couple of comments:

- As for the timing, as others have said and you mention above, it would seem wise to make sure women can definitely see you are interested romantically ASAP before things go down a friend route, thats something you can do. As for them telling you they aren't interested - how much time are we talking about? Perhaps you are getting too attached too soon and it is out of synch with some of the womens' rhythms? (I think a lot of us Aspies have that problem). Have you thought of asking them on a coffee date as soon as you have figured out they might be worth getting to know better and then telling them at the end "I really like you, I'd like to repeat this, please call if you feel the same way?" and leaving it in their court? That way you can make it really clear what you are interested in and also leave a graceful exit so they will hopefully only call if they want another date, not to let you down gently or suggest friendship instead, since it will be easier for them to just not call at all.

- You are the only one who can know for sure if there is a slight problem with misogyny, but if there is then its useful to have it pointed out as feedback and it is something that can be worked on and corrected. I don't think anger helps..

the problem with what you're saying is that it isn't really relevant if some of the women have done something wrong. nobody can change that, so it's irrelevant to discuss it. all we can do is advise him how to change his own approach and to hopefully make him aware how he is coming across to us (and likely to women in real life as well).

i did say that some of the women may have character issues of some kind, but it really doesn't matter either way - it wouldn't help him to get a date to start to think that women who reject him have some kind of underlying problem (in spite of the fact it is unlikely to be true that they ALL have a problem anyways).

Of course, you are who you are, but to me the bolded part is a huge red flag. Huge. It gives you (or at least your words give you) a predatory cast, and nobody wants to date that, especially if you're both predatory *and* not choosy (or choosy in an obvious, "go for the shiniest girl" way). If I've misunderstood, I'm sorry.

I'm also way, way older than you, so my experiences are probably very different.

I'd appreciate it basically if they let me know almost immediately 'hey, I'm not interested in dating right now.. I just want to be friends".

Part of the problem, and I'll admit, is that I'm an extreme planner. I can't do things spontaneously. I can't just.. go get coffee. The closest coffee shop is 15 miles away. I don't drive. I have to arrange to have someone take me to the place I'm going to be meeting this other person. It requires great logistical prowess sometimes. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten shot down just on that fact alone. It's amazing how shallow people can be. It doesn't matter that if I were to drive I'd likely be a hazard to myself and others.. no that doesn't matter. The act of owning a car and paying into the whole screwed up system is more important..

I'm sure I sometimes get attached to soon. Thats what happens when you continually slide down a hill towards a precipitous ledge, you begin grasping at anything which might preclude you falling further. The closer you get to the edge the more desperation you have to grab hold and the more tenaciously you do it. The most recent example is more just amusing. I knew she was out of my league and I was proved right. But it doesn't help lessen the feeling of getting strung along.

Well it is relevant to an extent because that's part of the reason for his frustrations which lead to his original rant. It's all well giving him advice on how to change his approach but if you're not taking on board anything he's saying it just makes you and everyone else giving advice sound like you're being over-critical towards him (and by this I mean that will be his perception) and the natural reaction to that, is for him to stick to his original viewpoint.

I also never said every single girl he's complained about had character issues, but anyone who is suggesting the complete opposite is being quite naive if that's the case.

No I understand what you are saying. That was a difficult thing to try and explain. I'm not saying that I'm not choosy. I'm actually very choosy. But What I'm trying to say is, My physical ideal is a series of ranges 130-180lbs, 5'5"-5'10" height, Intelligence and how she presents herself is more important, and less negotiable. I'd never date a 250lb girl no matter how smart she was because I'd never be able to find her attractive and it would be wrong of me to take advantage of her. I'm sorry if that comes across as shallow, but I'd also never date a girl who weighed 80lbs, was missing more teeth than she had and looked like she was strung out all the time.. regardless of her personality. Personality only gets so far. if there is no physical attraction then I cannot be anything but friends with them. But instead of potentially sending them the wrong message, I simply don't contact them in the first place. Nothing I say is going to come across the way I want it to come across. I'm not saying I'd rather have a supermodel who is an idiot over a heavy girl who was a genius. But I'd much prefer to have a girl who is both attractive (in my some what loosely defined ideal of what is attractive) and intelligent than one or the other.

It's not predatory, it's simply that I'm willing to be flexible in my requirements to an extent. the bit about re-casting is simply that if one of my female friends decided that she wanted to go out with me, I wouldn't have a problem shifting her back into the "Dating" category rather than the "Friend" category she had previously placed herself into.

nobody suggested the opposite, so i think you're reading things into what they are saying.

i've given advice based on the information he presented, which has been inconsistent from the beginning of the thread until now.