Encountered a pair of Pick-Up Artists last night.

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Ah, I might have misread. Still, my thoughts are the same on this.
The things that have been mentioned in the opening post have led me to draw up some conclusions which are at best mere speculation but I'd rather not share them here as it's unfair to Shau.
As I said, this is an issue probably best left for him to figure out on his own with his GF than for us to spell it out or advise him on.

On that note, I'm out.

This incident is unfortunate but it has nothing to do with you or your girlfriend so you really shouldn't be making it so.

Part of the problem is the way they intentionally and purposely make you comfortable, and then escalate. And then make you comfortable again and escalate some more. It can be difficult to figure out where to draw the line - and if you get it wrong, you end up having a reputation as a crazy psycho b*tch.

I'm not saying women can't say no to them - clearly women like me and kez can and do - but of course we don't worry about the social consequences. For women who worry about social consequences, don't have a strong identity or high sense if self worth - they can be picked up by players due to those factors and the amount of manipulation involved. And a lot of women are vulnerable on those 3 points. It doesn't mean they can't say no - it just makes it more likely percentage wise for such manipulation to succeed. And some of them will lie about anything to get what they want.

Shau: personal question - is she only fooling around with you, but not sleeping with you? Or has she avoided everything except for kissing? Relationships are different from pick ups, especially if you don't want her to hate you later on.

So what you are really saying is, that you actually like guys to seduce you, only if you like them. Don't you think that makes you shallow, just like guys would give special attention to women if they like them?

Not sure what your point is here.

She's supposed to let herself be seduced by someone she doesn't like or else she's shallow?

define being seduced

define cheating

define attraction

define pride

aaaagghhhh

not only on a personal level, but culturally too - I will say it again - how we have not nuked eachother by now and how we manage to not only procreate but cram the planet full of dysfunctional humans is something I will never understand

You're in the mood for conflict today. Interesting that you chose to take it out on kez instead of me.

He's saying that girls who selectively accept seduction by some guys are like the guys who selectively act nice only with certain girls.

Generalisation. True of some, not true of all. Perhaps more true of a certain class of society.

There's a huge difference between being nice and being a stupid mindless bag of animal instincts.

"Acting nice" is the same as "seduction?" Still not following.........

If a girl was putting seduction moves on me that I wasn't receptive to, rejecting her would be shallow? It honestly sounds like you guys are just making up double standards here to justify your indignation..........

Can you explain?

I agree - it seems to sound like it.

If a man really wants to understand, go to a gay bar and be hit on by an assortment of men. If you reject that person - is that shallow? No, you're not bloody interested. Everybody has a right to a preference.

I think every straight guy (who hasn't been hit on by women and rejected their advances) should do this.

No, he was saying that accepting her seduction moves just because she's hot is shallow.

He's equating that to selective niceness.

That's how Kjas and Leafplant are describing women: spineless, blinds and victims of their own instincts and of society that raised to be like this.

While I was saying that this woman chose, with full awarness, to be seduced by this guy and she chose to make out with him, otherwise her reaction would be totally different.

I am saying that women are humans with will and brains like men, while them are saying they are creatures with no will. It's ironic, but read their posts again, that's what they are saying.

As difficult as it is not to speak in generalisations, it causes all manner of problems.

Re: bold bit. We cannot make that call - we weren't there. I have been alive a lot longer than you and have been a female a lot longer than you so have experienced all manner of things and have observed all manner or things.

People are complicated and the society expectations don't help. Of course women have will - but the society by and large demands that they never openly display their will in a sexually explicit way (lest they be labelled whores).