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blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 3:02 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
As a matter of fact yes, I've faced a lot of scrutiny of that sort regarding my LTD / non-working status.

That scrutiny is from nosy neighbours, people who judge me by first sight or know that I used to work, my ex-husband who attacked me in court for years saying I was being lazy and expecting him to support me (I never asked for alimony), random people like hairdressers, the postman, tradespeople who come to the house, relatives in other countries, total strangers on the phone (customer service etc)., some of my doctors who don't have my full history, my dentist, and friends of the family. I even hear it from my insurance people who keep asking for updates and proof that I'm as disabled as I claim to be. When I first joined WP there was a small group of people who kept questioning how I could possibly be autistic, let alone L2, if I own a house and raised kids. They think I seem smart and accomplished so I must be lying, or exaggerating my struggles, etc.

I hear it all the time. It's actually nice to be able to say I'm on disability because of my stroke because people can accept that more than if I say I'm autistic. It was even better when I needed a walker to ambulate because then I looked the part.

Not only do people assume I'm working, but they inquire about what I do for a living as if it's a matter of fact. Women get this pressure just as much as men. I'm sure if I were younger and had young children I'd still hear the same BS. When I had babies it was NOT cool or OK to be a stay-home mother. I even knew women married to very wealthy men (doctors, lawyers) who felt pressured to go back to work even if they didn't need the money.

People default to thinking we're all bourgeois automatons but that doesn't mean we are. I think for the most part, a lot of the questions are just preprogrammed small talk and the people who ask don't really GAS anyway. Most people would rather talk about themselves, regardless of what they ask.


What you have said here seems to jive a lot more with my experiences with people regarding employment status.

I guess we differ on whether this kind of cultural attitude towards unemployment affects dating, particularly in terms of the stigma of unemployment for men whilst they are trying to date.



IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 3:08 pm

My autistic son has a Master's degree and is having a very hard time finding the type of employment he wants. He went about three years not working at all during Covid. He lives at home when not at school, and is dependent on me despite being nearly 30. He's had a longterm GF the whole time. She's finishing a PhD and can't find work either. They're both overqualified for random jobs, and underqualified for entry-level work in their careers. She lives with her parents, too. That's the reality these days. They both do a bit of part-time stuff to meet their basic needs but there's no way they're self-sufficient or able to live together and have kids.

My son has lots of friends male and female who are unemployed. The job market is absolutely crazy and it's near impossible to find work. I've said before that my son applied to something like 300 jobs over an eight month period of time, and only had two interviews. He botched them because of his autism (my opinion).

My daughter dated a man for five years, and he was unemployed until the last year or two.

I think some people in this thread might have the advantage of living in places where jobs are available, especially for autistic / disabled people. Finding work around here is next to impossible, able-minded or not.


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blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 3:17 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
My autistic son has a Master's degree and is having a very hard time finding the type of employment he wants. He went about three years not working at all during Covid. He lives at home when not at school, and is dependent on me despite being nearly 30. He's had a longterm GF the whole time. She's finishing a PhD and can't find work either. They're both overqualified for random jobs, and underqualified for entry-level work in their careers. She lives with her parents, too. That's the reality these days. They both do a bit of part-time stuff to meet their basic needs but there's no way they're self-sufficient or able to live together and have kids.

My son has lots of friends male and female who are unemployed. The job market is absolutely crazy and it's near impossible to find work. I've said before that my son applied to something like 300 jobs over an eight month period of time, and only had two interviews. He botched them because of his autism (my opinion).

My daughter dated a man for five years, and he was unemployed until the last year or two.

I think some people in this thread might have the advantage of living in places where jobs are available, especially for autistic / disabled people. Finding work around here is next to impossible, able-minded or not.


Thank you Isabella, I appreciate you sharing this post of people you know having relatable experiences.



funeralxempire
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15 Dec 2023, 3:23 pm

I've dated while unemployed.


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15 Dec 2023, 3:25 pm

No problem, Blitz. I hope you know I'm not trying to attack your POV. I'm trying to support the autistic men on WP so they know there are at least some women who get it and understand without judging. I don't want Chris or anyone else to think their only value to prospective partners is financial, whether that's the message they're fed by social media or not.

Here's a real time convo I'm having with my son this very minute.
He's ranting about his current work-from-home job, which he started last December -



Image

Image

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Image


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IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 3:47 pm

My bad - I thought this thread was started by Chris.

I just noticed it's Jamesy.

My opinions remain the same.

Sorry Jamesy.


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blitzkrieg
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15 Dec 2023, 4:06 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
No problem, Blitz. I hope you know I'm not trying to attack your POV. I'm trying to support the autistic men on WP so they know there are at least some women who get it and understand without judging.


Yeah, I didn't take things personally, don't worry.

I was initially more concerned about you not acknowledging the unemployment stigma I had in mind, but then with some follow up posts you amended that and I was happy to see that you acknowledged that.

I tend to agree that autistic women in general seem more understanding of unemployment struggles versus the majority of society anyway (NT's with their social value system, which seems to include employment status).

funeralxempire wrote:
I've dated while unemployed.


Well, you would have wouldn't you?

You got the charm. :) :P



The_Face_of_Boo
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15 Dec 2023, 4:14 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Jamesy wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
There aren't many women who would like dating an unemployed man, especially a disabled unemployed man.

This is basic knowledge and self explanatory as to the reasons why.



Would men like dating an unemployed, disabled woman?

Is it self-explanatory as to the reasons why?

I'm pretty sure my BF thinks I'm the bee's knees, and I haven't worked in over 10 years.


It is culturally more forgivable in society for women not to work. Call it benevolent sexism or whatever but it is an attitude that definitely exists in pretty much all of Western Europe and a lot of US states.

Although some men do avoid dating unemployed women for the same reason as women who avoid dating unemployed men.

I though that attitude was changing in our society

It certainly is and has. This isn’t the 50s. Women these days typically are not concerned about finding a good provider unless they are in some weird, patriarchal cult.



It depends where, in some areas the majority would be in patriarchal cults. ie. Christianity, Islam and Judaism.



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15 Dec 2023, 4:20 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
blitzkrieg wrote:
There aren't many women who would like dating an unemployed man, especially a disabled unemployed man.

This is basic knowledge and self explanatory as to the reasons why.



Would men like dating an unemployed, disabled woman?

Is it self-explanatory as to the reasons why?

I'm pretty sure my BF thinks I'm the bee's knees, and I haven't worked in over 10 years.


According to The Guardian, some believe that the "bee's knees" derives from a shortening of "the be all and the end all of everything" which was shortened to "the B's and E's" and thus to "bee's knees"; while another camp believe it derives from "it's the business".



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15 Dec 2023, 4:35 pm

Darn.
He calls me Bee (for Honeybee).
I thought I just had nice knees.

:(


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IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 4:42 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:


I tend to agree that autistic women in general seem more understanding of unemployment struggles versus the majority of society anyway (NT's with their social value system, which seems to include employment status).



I couldn't in good conscience expect more of a partner than I expect of myself.
If I can't work, why should I expect them to?


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15 Dec 2023, 4:42 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
It certainly is and has. This isn’t the 50s. Women these days typically are not concerned about finding a good provider unless they are in some weird, patriarchal cult.



It depends where, in some areas the majority would be in patriarchal cults. ie. Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

That’s true although I wouldn’t recommend dating such a person. :lol: If everyone was religious, I’d probably try to find someone more on the fringes. Nah, I’d just stay single. Dating in patriarchal religion is not worth it.



funeralxempire
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15 Dec 2023, 4:43 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
I've dated while unemployed.


Well, you would have wouldn't you?

You got the charm. :) :P


I must have. I wonder where it all went. :lol:


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Just a reminder: under international law, an occupying power has no right of self-defense, and those who are occupied have the right and duty to liberate themselves by any means possible.


IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 4:44 pm

Is there the same pressure on gay / lesbian people to find "providers" ?

Is one of the men or one of the women supposed to be more of a breadwinner?

(Sorry if that's a derail, but I just don't get these heteronormative social standards.)


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IsabellaLinton
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15 Dec 2023, 4:45 pm

Does your boyfriend work, TP?
I can't remember.


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TikvaBall
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15 Dec 2023, 4:56 pm

Dirk, I thought that was cool when you word nerded like that. That's absolutely something I would do.

Back on topic, I live in the Southern US, and yup, they judge hard for people being employed, especially for men. With the people I know, or at least the ones I would surround myself with, they would not judge if the person was disabled. The bad thing is that there is a stigma regarding invisible disabilities.
Ironically, in my experience, non-disabled NTs are understanding of disabled people not finding work, but people with physical disabilities, or at least blind people who have been able to find work can be the most judgmental people I've ever seen in my life towards disabled people who either can't work or who just haven't been able to find a job.
I wonder if those attitudes are changing any due to the unemployment situation. I hope so, but some people are just addicted to being judgmental trolls, so probably not. You guys might do better trying to date younger people. Gen Z seems a lot more accepting of people, at least from my experiences.