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Do women really understand guys as much as they think?

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anarkhos
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26 Dec 2005, 8:48 pm

By the way, I'm starting to understand some of the comments made about AS men on this forum, in that they hate women.

It's not true with me ladies! I revere women, get rejected, and I'm still not bitter!

However, I'm beginning to understand the stereotype. Thanks a lot guys :roll:



QuirkyCarla
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26 Dec 2005, 9:50 pm

anarkhos wrote:
LOL, educating women on nice guys? WTF?!

Screw you! Women weren't put on this earth to like you. If they don't like you, then tough beans.

Wow, bitter bitter bitter, what can I say? :roll:


*high fives anarkhos*



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26 Dec 2005, 9:52 pm

QuirkyCarla wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
LOL, educating women on nice guys? WTF?!

Screw you! Women weren't put on this earth to like you. If they don't like you, then tough beans.

Wow, bitter bitter bitter, what can I say? :roll:


*high fives anarkhos*


Your point being? :?



QuirkyCarla
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26 Dec 2005, 10:00 pm

ELLCIM wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
LOL, educating women on nice guys? WTF?!

Screw you! Women weren't put on this earth to like you. If they don't like you, then tough beans.

Wow, bitter bitter bitter, what can I say? :roll:


Women do need to be educated about "nice guys", because there is something that they are getting that tells them to avoid them, and a guy with AS is now every girl's worst nightmare. Why, I don't know - I operate on logic, and the things women do defy all logic. It is a basic human right to be liked by others, including those of the opposite sex. Every man has the right to be liked by a woman, and every woman has the right to be liked by a man. It isn't "tough beans" - it's not my problem anyway. If they don't like "nice guys", then that's their problem, not mine. They are making a choice. I'm living with AS and don't know any other way.

Yeah, I am very bitter and cynical about women. Like I said, I've been burned many times, only to see the women go into relationships where they are utterly disrespected.

If they want a relationship where they are actually respected and loved, and not treated like a sex object or something else R-rated, then they know where to go, whether it be to me or one of my guy friends. But something makes them avoid what they want and they decide to be treated like objects.

One day, "nice guys" will rise up and inherit the earth. :twisted:

And we'll be a happier place. The murder rate will drop, and florist companies will be a good investment. Women will come to accept it because they won't have a choice.



Sometimes even "nice guys" have alterior (sp?) motives.



QuirkyCarla
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26 Dec 2005, 10:17 pm

ELLCIM wrote:
QuirkyCarla wrote:
anarkhos wrote:
LOL, educating women on nice guys? WTF?!

Screw you! Women weren't put on this earth to like you. If they don't like you, then tough beans.

Wow, bitter bitter bitter, what can I say? :roll:


*high fives anarkhos*


Your point being? :?


My point is that anarkhos is 100% right. If someone doesn't like you, that's their right. No need to be bitter about it.



QuirkyCarla
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26 Dec 2005, 10:28 pm

Funny how this thread is entitled "Do women understand men as much as they think?" and yet the men here (besides anarkhos) are proving that they don't understand women at all. I also think the whole "nice guy"/"bad guy" thing is bogus. There are many factors that determine whether someone is attractive to someone, not just whether they are good or bad, nice or not nice. You may think the reason you get "burned" by women is that you're nice, but there are probably other factors in there that make them not like you. They could be superficial and find you physically unattractive, or since people with AS tend to be quiet, maybe they think you're not open enough or don't care about them. There could be a lot of reasons though. Techstep mentioned something about women preferring men who think like women. I actually did a group project on Gender Differences in Communication for my Interpersonal Relations class, and some of the research I read about showed that women who think like men are more lucky in relationships, just as men who think like women are.
In the end, everyone just wants someone they feel they connect with who understands them. It's not easy for ANYONE to find that. NT's may have an advantage and date more than those of us with AS, but a lot of their relationships fail because they don't have that connection.



anarkhos
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26 Dec 2005, 10:45 pm

QuirkyCarla wrote:
Sometimes even "nice guys" have alterior (sp?) motives.


Ulterior, although I'm not quite sure what ELLCIM's motives are.

He certainly seems self-interested.

I met a 'nice' girl once. Just because she was nice didn't mean she was warm, caring, compassionate, interesting, thoughtful, honest, or sane.

I suppose she wasn't a homicidal danger to society, but I wouldn't ever want to meet her again. Thankfully, I have my right to freely associate with whomever I choose.



QuirkyCarla
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26 Dec 2005, 10:52 pm

anarkhos wrote:
QuirkyCarla wrote:
Sometimes even "nice guys" have alterior (sp?) motives.


Ulterior, although I'm not quite sure what ELLCIM's motives are.

He certainly seems self-interested.

I met a 'nice' girl once. Just because she was nice didn't mean she was warm, caring, compassionate, interesting, thoughtful, honest, or sane.

I suppose she wasn't a homicidal danger to society, but I wouldn't ever want to meet her again. Thankfully, I have my right to freely associate with whomever I choose.


Lol. Again, I agree with you 100%.



anarkhos
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26 Dec 2005, 10:57 pm

QuirkyCarla wrote:
In the end, everyone just wants someone they feel they connect with who understands them. It's not easy for ANYONE to find that.


Just to interject (and digress a bit)...

I can understand people's motives, and I can sympathize with people. Indeed, I empathize with wanting to have an emotional connection with someone. Surely no other experience can compare in importance, and, indeed, reverence.

However, I don't think it is possible to understand others beyond this, i.e. in how they think. I used to demand this kind of understanding from others, and I highly advise not treading my path. It leads to disillusionment, self-pity, and despair.

It isn't too much to ask for someone to be caring, thoughtful, and compassionate, but understanding is likely asking the impossible. Fair warning ;)



QuirkyCarla
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26 Dec 2005, 11:06 pm

anarkhos wrote:
QuirkyCarla wrote:
In the end, everyone just wants someone they feel they connect with who understands them. It's not easy for ANYONE to find that.


Just to interject (and digress a bit)...

I can understand people's motives, and I can sympathize with people. Indeed, I empathize with wanting to have an emotional connection with someone. Surely no other experience can compare in importance, and, indeed, reverence.

However, I don't think it is possible to understand others beyond this, i.e. in how they think. I used to demand this kind of understanding from others, and I highly advise not treading my path. It leads to disillusionment, self-pity, and despair.

It isn't too much to ask for someone to be caring, thoughtful, and compassionate, but understanding is likely asking the impossible. Fair warning ;)


I meant understanding more in the sense of empathy, rather than understanding one's thoughts.



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27 Dec 2005, 1:11 am

anarkhos wrote:
QuirkyCarla wrote:
Sometimes even "nice guys" have alterior (sp?) motives.


Ulterior, although I'm not quite sure what ELLCIM's motives are.

He certainly seems self-interested.


We're all self-interested though, right? While we want things for other people in a relationship to be good, of course we want things to work out for us too. Natural human nature.

That is a whole other philosophical discussion altogether.



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27 Dec 2005, 1:15 am

QuirkyCarla wrote:
Funny how this thread is entitled "Do women understand men as much as they think?" and yet the men here (besides anarkhos) are proving that they don't understand women at all. I also think the whole "nice guy"/"bad guy" thing is bogus. There are many factors that determine whether someone is attractive to someone, not just whether they are good or bad, nice or not nice. You may think the reason you get "burned" by women is that you're nice, but there are probably other factors in there that make them not like you. They could be superficial and find you physically unattractive, or since people with AS tend to be quiet, maybe they think you're not open enough or don't care about them. There could be a lot of reasons though. Techstep mentioned something about women preferring men who think like women. I actually did a group project on Gender Differences in Communication for my Interpersonal Relations class, and some of the research I read about showed that women who think like men are more lucky in relationships, just as men who think like women are.
In the end, everyone just wants someone they feel they connect with who understands them. It's not easy for ANYONE to find that. NT's may have an advantage and date more than those of us with AS, but a lot of their relationships fail because they don't have that connection.


I think that's a very good way to put it. That David DeAngelo guy really makes it look like "nice guys" have no chance, and he makes it very believable. However I find some of his arguments contradictory to one another, and another day when I have time I'll cite my examples, except for one that I'll bring up now. That thing being that he seems to know everything about women, yet he can't hold down a girlfriend for more than a couple years. He's obviously doing something wrong.

Your argument Carla is much easier to work with, and makes life more worth it than what DeAngelo says. Sometimes I wonder if DeAngelo just says what he says for pure entertainment value.



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27 Dec 2005, 1:24 am

QuirkyCarla wrote:
Funny how this thread is entitled "Do women understand men as much as they think?" and yet the men here (besides anarkhos) are proving that they don't understand women at all.


Regardless of who's on point with that and who's not, I didn't want this to turn into a nice-guy pityfest. I wrote this threads to suggest that the not understanding was a 2 way street and that both sides shared an equal amount of it, I was hoping it would stay a bit more on that train of thought (maybe too many of my friend's girlfriends were the types who felt like women were superiorly incomprehensible while guys in general were just pathetic and low-level in terms of complexity; a major fallacy IMO). I guess I could put it that I more or less wrote it on impulse without considering the fact that this is the way it would turn out - then again I've really been making an effort to just have guts about saying more controversial things and actually not hyperanalyse what I do before I do it (again, trying to break one of those ultra-conservative aspie habits and take the plunge once in a while).


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27 Dec 2005, 1:29 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
QuirkyCarla wrote:
Funny how this thread is entitled "Do women understand men as much as they think?" and yet the men here (besides anarkhos) are proving that they don't understand women at all.


Regardless of who's on point with that and who's not, I didn't want this to turn into a nice-guy pityfest. I wrote this threads to suggest that the not understanding was a 2 way street and that both sides shared an equal amount of it, I was hoping it would stay a bit more on that train of thought (maybe too many of my friend's girlfriends were the types who felt like women were superiorly incomprehensible while guys in general were just pathetic and low-level in terms of complexity; a major fallacy IMO). I guess I could put it that I more or less wrote it on impulse without considering the fact that this is the way it would turn out - then again I've really been making an effort to just have guts about saying more controversial things and actually not hyperanalyse what I do before I do it (again, trying to break one of those ultra-conservative aspie habits and take the plunge once in a while).


I never claimed to understand men, but some of the generalizations the men made about women were messed up.



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27 Dec 2005, 2:57 am

QuirkyCarla wrote:
I never claimed to understand men, but some of the generalizations the men made about women were messed up.


Yeah, a lot of it does seem like it's at a loss for context.


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27 Dec 2005, 12:40 pm

Serissa wrote:
WOMEN CAN FEEL JUST AS CONFUSED AND UTTERLY ALIENTATED AND GENERALLY REJECTED AND COMPLETEY UNDESIRABLE AS MEN.


Amen, Serissa!! that's the first thing that came to my mind when I read this thread. Now for my own points.
First, sweeping generalizations are almost always wrong. There are always exceptions. Second, where do you get the idea women think they understand men? not a single woman I have ever known thinks they understand men, in fact, all the women I know(including myself) think men are entirely confusing and are actively seeking to understand them better, an attempt which almost always fails.
Second, I really can't say anything about the mainstream version of society, but in my circles, any non-nice guys would be absolute outcasts socially.
third, I'm going to be blunt with this, and I don't mean to be offensive or insulting, but maybe you're missing something. Maybe it's not just "nice guy" vs. non "nice guy". Maybe it's something entirely different you're not doing/understanding. After all, we are aspies, and therefore likely to entirely miss many things socially.