A suggestion for some (not all) heterosexual autistic men

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I’ve gained weight duringast few months hopefully I can get back to losing weight I’m 280 now. Probably shouldn’t eat these donuts I bought . Maybe half one a day.

Just eat the holes , they are calorie free

I'm piling on the pounds too , I have dodgy knees so eventually I wont be able to walk

So obviously I'm not a doctor or psychological expert either, and my outlook on this topic has been formed through personal experiences as well as listening to relevant content, and my own admittedly unqualified analysis, but I will say that I do know myself pretty well.

So here's something I would ask you. What do you think causes depression? Do you believe that everybody who's depressed just has a random spontaneous chemical imbalance, or do you believe some people have that while others are depressed about things going on in their life? Or do you believe that people are just depressed because they refuse to submit and accept crummy circumstances?

If you believe that people get depressed about life circumstances, where is the line drawn between things that can cause you to become depressed and things that you detest about your life, but you're just magically depressed about something else? Do you think people can be depressed about losing a family member? Being unemployed? Having no familial connections? Having no friends? Having a physical or mental disability that seriously impedes their ability to accomplish a lot of things that most people can? A less severe disability? At what point is the depression somehow not related to what you're feeling depressed about?

I'm sorry dude, but I'd heard the "Oh you're not really depressed about not being able to get a girlfriend, it's got to be something else entirely that you can't put your finger on" spiel for such a long time that I actually started to believe it, until one day, I gave it some serious though, and realised that that's hogwash. The whole reason I became depressed in the first place is because I wanted a girlfriend, and I could not get one, whilst I had no choice but to watch my peers do that very thing. My younger brother got his first girlfriend when he was over 10 years younger than I am now, and he's had a child before I've even been able to get a f***ing girlfriend or lose my virginity. How in the f*** am I meant to be happy about that, dude, when all I've really wanted since I was 12 was to have a girlfriend. Come on, man, like seriously.

Anyway, I listened to Dr Phil's appearance on the Joe Rogan podcast, and I found that a good number of the things he was saying on there reinforced things I'd already believed.

On the podcast, he mentions that there are two types of depression: endogenous depression, or depression originating internally, where the origin of the depression has to do with brain chemicals, naturally low serotonin levels and other biological causes, and exogenous depression, or depression originating externally, which has to do with being depressed over what's going on in your life. I'm in the latter category. I have a high enough level of self-awareness and introspection skills to tell you exactly what has caused most of my depression, and what would be required to fix it. I'm not going to argue with you if you're going to try and tell me what I am and am not depressed about, because I've spent enough time introspecting and analysing to tell you confidently what the problem is, and what I believe would need to happen to fix it.

It might seem to you like I'm saying I get one girlfriend and suddenly my depression is fixed forever. That's not what I'm saying. The requirement for this depression to diminish as much as it can is for me to have reason to believe that I will be able to find a life partner, and when I can't even get a girlfriend, how am I meant to have any confidence in that happening? I don't want to be romantically alone my whole life dude. I would rather die right now than live that life out. How would you like to be alone forever? Since you have a girlfriend, I'm guessing not very much, so don't dismiss my despair as "not real depression" when the prospect of me being alone forever is very real.

And listen, I get that it's not going to happen for me now, hence the weight loss, but dude, I can't live without a girlfriend forever. If I'd had a normal romantic life up until this point, I'd cope with being single at the moment the same as most people do, but it's different if you've never had a partner and have no particular reason to believe that that will change.

I have a difficult time moderating my intake of fast food, junk food, sugary drinks, etc. If I leave things up to how I feel, I'll generally make the wrong choice, so I figure if I can't moderate my consumption of junk food and drink, then I shouldn't have it, or if I do have it, I have to set myself strict objective standards about when I can and cannot have certian things.

I don't know about you, but with me I find I'm generally in one of two modes. Either I am committed to the weight loss, or I just eat whatever I want. When I get myself as committed as I have now, especially with the momentum I have behind me now, it's almost impossible to get me off track. The other day, I was at a friend's birthday party, and pretty much every food and drink temptation was available to me. I would generally drink alcohol and people were offering free alcoholic beverages, there were free cans of soft drink, cookies, chips, the idea of ordering fast food from either of my two favourite fast food places was floated, and I stayed strong with my convictions and had none of it. I bought two litre bottles of water with me and that's all I consumed at the party.

If you're committed to losing the weight, and you're willing to sacrifice your favourite unhealthy eating habits, it's amazing what can happen. I used to drink soft drinks and iced coffees every day, and I'd have milkshakes fairly often too, but with the exception of my birthday last month, and having milk with my cereal, the only drink I'm having is water. Any temptation I get to have anything else is quickly offset by my desire to lose weight and maintain healthier habits.

And that's what it's really all about is habits. You're not consuming the foods and drinks you are now because you absolutely need to have them, it's because you're in the habit of having them, and when you break those habits through at least a period of abstinence, any residual temptation is very easy to resist.

If you're serious about losing weight and getting out of the habit of having the fattening foods and drinks , what worked for me was giving up something new every month, giving me enough time to get used to the change before I made another one. I tried giving up everything at once, and maybe I'd last a couple of weeks with it, but it never stuck like it has this time. I started by giving up all sugary drinks starting on July 1st, then I gave up anything that could be considered a dessert (chocolates, cookies, cakes, ice cream, pancakes, etc) starting in August 1st, and I've given up all fast-food as of September 1st, so I've pretty well given up all my negative eating habits. Soon I'll likely shift my focus to optimising what I'm currently eating and/or getting into the habit of exercising, but I won't be too quick to start doing cardio until the weight loss I'm experiencing now slows down. I'm quite aware that if I lose the weight too fast, I'm at a higher risk of being left with loose skin, so I want to minimise that as much as possible.

TGI
I'm not sure that the differences are so black and white for everyone.

Ref

I disagree strongly with that last sentence. Psychotropic medication has never worked for me, and why would it when it's not changing what I'm depressed about? Even if it made me feel better, unless it made it easier for me to conduct myself in such a way as to change what I'm actually depressed about, at best it's a bandage solution, or as Saveferris said about something else, it would cure the symptoms but it wouldn't cure the problem.

I know they treat endogenous and exogenous depression no differently nowadays, but to be honest, I believe that's because they can make more money out of doing it that way, at least for big pharma. I don't think depression is a one-size-fits-all diagnosis, and I think there have to be differences between the way that endogenous and exogenous depressions manifest that would necessitate a different approach to each. If nothing else, I know what's right for me.

I would have less stress in my life without a GF or people , I long to be a hermit ( I'm happiest by myself ) - it's still on the cards.

I did not mean to make it sound like you don't have actual depression , I was saying actual depression ideally needs professional treatment ( I'm not saying it's not possible on your own either ) , you've hinted at suicide several times now due to your perceived future situation - you need professional help in my opinion dude.

you'll hear no more from me on the subject , I'm obviously not coming across the way I mean.

I dont doubt that you know yourself best, its fair to say though that nothing is absolute.
Knowing this, having that question of my own bias sit with me, I have found outside perspectives of value to me.

What I took from that piece, why I quoted it was I can relate to the idea that stressors can trigger a disposition towards endogenous depression.
Considering that autists will experience a higher level of stressors throughout life I would err on the side of caution before deciding that the depression was reactive alone.
Not meaning to discount you here, i agree with your perspectives generally, moreso looking out for you based on my own experiences.

I'm not saying that I'm going to commit suicide. Only that if I knew that I was to be alone forever, that would be the outcome, but I don't know that, and I'm trying my best to make sure that that doesn't happen. It's a hypothetical. Not like I'm ready to jump off a building or anything. I've got to give myself a fair chance first, again, hence the weight loss.

I havent had therapy in a few years now, and I've considered seeing a particular psychologist near me to see if they can help with anything, but I would obviously want to claim the Medicare rebates off of it. What's stopping me is I would need a mental health plan from my GP, and I don't know whether I need to have the psychologist approve me over there first, or whether I get the plan first and then speak to the psychologist. That's another thing I'd speak to the psychologist about - not doing things that I'd like to get done. I'm not always excellent at doing things, but I'm pretty good at not doing things, hence why I started my weight loss journey by not eating certain things. Thought I'd play to my strengths

Anyway, if you don't want to respond to my posts about this topic anymore, that's fine, but don't do so because you think I don't want you to. If my preference counts for anything, I'd prefer you speak up if you've got something to say, even if I don't agree.

I'm sorry I might have gone a bit overboard on you. I guess I feel that the idea that I'm not depressed because I can't get a girlfriend, and I'm depressed because of some other reason invalidates my feelings, experiences and beliefs on the matter, and because I've received that response quite a number of times, it gets frustrating having people tell you that you're actually not depressed for the reason that you actually are depressed.

Yeah, I get where you're coming from. Thinking about it, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if externalities could also trigger endogenous depression, but I don't believe that's the case for me. I get the sense that once my inability to get a relationship goes away and I feel as capable of getting a relationship as most people, most of my depression will disappear.

I know this doesn't necessarily prove anything, but the few times I thought I was close to actually getting that elusive relationship, I felt a lot better. Then, when everything fell through, the weight of depression came crashing back down on me as I realised that I was still as alone as ever. I believe I have the capacity to be content with my life in a way that I haven't before, if I was able to feel like getting a life partner wasn't beyond my capabilities, and that my desire for physical and emotional intimacy in a romantic context must always be foregone. Seeing other people succeed where I want to succeed more than anything but can't makes things a fair bit harder to cope with. Some of the reasons I haven't gone out much to certain places is because I don't want to put myself through the torture of having to see couples remind me of what I'm missing out on, and can't have.

f**k me , I just noticed you are 23 - give yourself a f*****g chance dude.

FWIW I met my life partner ( as in we are still together ) when I was 29 , we starved and struggled for 15 years with very little issues. I got a high paid job but within 3 years it was all too much for me and my world came crashing done ( burnout ). 5 years later I have an ASD diagnosis among other things and am still struggling to pull myself out of the depression caused by the burnout.

Go and see your GP and find out the score dude.

You didn't know I was 23? How old did you think I was?

And yeah like I said, I'm giving myself a chance by trying to make myself a more appealing prospective partner.

I don't expect to have been married by now but the fact that I haven't gotten anywhere with relationships despite my wishes and efforts to do so has been pretty discouraging. If I can't even get a relationship, or even get anyone to reciprocate romantic interest, what chance do I have of getting a life partner? If I wasn't able to walk, I likely would never be able to run a marathon.

You might consider 23 to be too young to be worrying about this, but most of my peers and even those younger than me have had a lot more relationship experience than me. And it's not like I only started taking interest in relationships last year or the year before. I developed an interest in romantic relationships when I was 12 (hit puberty relatively early), and I'm still really no better off than I was then in that regard, which is really sad, considering the length and intensity of this unfulfilled desire I have.

I'm sorry that you've had to deal with the burn out and depression, and I wish you luck pulling yourself out of it.

For what it's worth I'm pretty sure everyone appreciates your presence on the forums here. I like your sense of humour.

I don't think I had an age in mind just not a whipper snapper

There's another factor you need to consider, which is how the depression is affecting your behavior -- and this is an issue on which even an otherwise self-aware depressed person might lack self-awareness. For example, Prozac has had a huge positive effect on my boyfriend's attitudes and behavior, an effect very obvious to just about anyone who knows him well, but he himself barely notices any difference, except based on what other people (including myself) have told him.

As I pointed out earlier, some behaviors common (but not universal) among depressed people can greatly interfere with both the process of forming a relationship in the first place and one's ability to maintain a relationship once it is formed.

That's one of the reasons for the common advice that one should, if at all possible, try to find fulfillment primarily in something other than a romantic relationship. If you can do so, it then becomes easier to find and keep a romantic relationship too.

Depression harms a person's relationship prospects in two general categories of ways: (1) by making the person less attractive and (2) by making the person harder to get along with.

The first factor, making a person less attractive, might (I'm not sure, but it seems likely) be mitigated within a group of friends that was formed at a depression support group, which is one of the reasons I suggested this idea.

The second factor, making the person harder to get along with, might include, among other possibilities: (a) neediness, with resulting possessiveness, jealousy, smothering, etc., and/or (b) generally toxic traits like extreme irritability, grudge-holding, and idealization followed by devaluation.

Neediness, though problematic and a turnoff for the vast majority of people, might not be a deal-breaker if you happen to be with someone equally needy. It can cause serious problems in the long run, e.g. by causing the partners to sabotage each other's progress toward any self-betterment goals, but it's at least theoretically possible for the partners to make a conscious mutual, agreed-upon effort not to do that.

On the other hand, what I refer to as the generally toxic traits can make a person absolutely intolerable and abusive. Fortunately, at least in some people (not everyone), these traits can be greatly diminished, even eradicated altogether, via therapy and/or medication. Unfortunately it may be hard to be self-aware of these traits.

Therapy and medication does not work for people with Autism. The Autism leads to other issues like depression and anxiety and social isolation as a direct result of not being accepted by society. Autism can not be cured. The continuous social rejection that a person with Autism endures as a psychological scarring effect that leads to other issues like depression and anxiety.

The depression can still be helped (at least for some of us) by medication and/or therapy.

The continuous social rejection can be dealt with by looking for friends in oddball subcultures rather than trying to fit in with the social mainstream.

We also need a much bigger and better-organized autistic community than now exists, so we can have more autistic-friendly workplaces and social opportunities.