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I got rejected and slapped hard in the middle of the hall.

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MCalavera
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27 Jan 2012, 7:36 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
no, not personally at all. but when you make blanket statements about women, you're going to get some backlash, especially since you have absolutely zero evidence for what you're saying.


Backlash implies you're taking it too personal.

It's very hard to provide solid evidence for any of this, but we can't really deny what we observe, can we?

I'd love to say that women only flake because men always lead them to do it, but unfortunately, that is not always true.



MCalavera
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27 Jan 2012, 7:36 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I don't think MCalavera was trying to blame it on one gender, he was just saying it's just something that happen to men in the dating world, there could be millions of reasons.

You're the one who's trying to blame a side...*cough* or.... someone.

he said that mostly women do it and not men. that is blaming women. i disagree, because men can be just as flaky as women. he has no actual evidence otherwise... besides personal experience and that of his friends.


He said it's something that more women do it than men, he didn't blame women, maybe in many cases the men behaved in a wrong way that made those women flake.

he phrased it as something that all men have to deal with. and if all men are dealing with it, then presumably all women are doing it.... according to him.


Yep, that's some nice logic as always.



The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Jan 2012, 7:38 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I don't think MCalavera was trying to blame it on one gender, he was just saying it's just something that happen to men in the dating world, there could be millions of reasons.

You're the one who's trying to blame a side...*cough* or.... someone.

he said that mostly women do it and not men. that is blaming women. i disagree, because men can be just as flaky as women. he has no actual evidence otherwise... besides personal experience and that of his friends.


He said it's something that more women do it than men, he didn't blame women, maybe in many cases the men behaved in a wrong way that made those women flake.

he phrased it as something that all men have to deal with. and if all men are dealing with it, then presumably all women are doing it.... according to him.


In a world where the man is the one who's expected to ask out the woman, then yea, it's probably something that most men would have to experience. And women in general are more likely to be creeped for various reasons by men than vice versa.

You're dramatizing his whole post.



hyperlexian
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27 Jan 2012, 7:48 pm

MCalavera, just keep in mind that if you are going to make statements about all men or all women, then people will react to that. and Boo, you make some interesting points but it is based on the premise that women are indeed the ones flaking out... which has not been established. so it's moot. MCalavera really can only comment on his personal experience, and cannot comment on either gender as a whole.

and there isn't too much point to let the conversation degenerate into people simply saying over and over that they have the opposite perspective, so i am gonna leave it alone at this point.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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27 Jan 2012, 7:57 pm

In most cases, the flake is just a delayed rejection, some people just can't be blunt. Hence why I hear women flaking stories more than men flaking too.

And since men ask out women more than women asking out men there here you go



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 28 Jan 2012, 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

MCalavera
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27 Jan 2012, 8:05 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
most probably, the flake is just a delayed rejection, some people just can't be blunt. Hence why I hear women flaking stories than men flaking too.

And since men ask out women more than women asking out men there here you go


Yep, nothing sinister about it. It's just what we're seeing.

I'm not saying women who flake do it for malicious reasons. Maybe they were afraid to say "no" when they were asked out, or maybe they just didn't think about it much at the time, or maybe they just changed their mind because they realized it wasn't worth it. A lot of women tend to rationalize things and weigh in the advantages and disadvantages with men who just asked them out, which leads to them often choosing to flake if they see there's more disadvantages than advantages. Men don't have to worry as much as women do about these things because they don't have to worry about the consequences that women are compelled by nature to worry about.

I'm sure that, given time and equipment and effort, studies could be made to support this. That's if studies like this haven't been made yet.



bucephalus
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27 Jan 2012, 9:23 pm

i think this discussion is useful because highlights a gaping flaw. Maybe men should stop asking women out in an attempt to entice the aforementioned gender to make the first move more often. that, hopefully will dispel the stigma associated with women being too forward.. then, we can have a situation where all people are not afraid to ask or accept when they want something. Then we look towards achieving flake equality!



MCalavera
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27 Jan 2012, 10:00 pm

bucephalus wrote:
i think this discussion is useful because highlights a gaping flaw. Maybe men should stop asking women out in an attempt to entice the aforementioned gender to make the first move more often. that, hopefully will dispel the stigma associated with women being too forward.. then, we can have a situation where all people are not afraid to ask or accept when they want something. Then we look towards achieving flake equality!


It's not really just about who's expected to ask people of the opposite gender out.

It's a bit deeper than that. For example, women get pregnant and, so, have to keep this in mind. Men don't have this issue. Well, at least, not the ones I know of.



mv
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28 Jan 2012, 5:03 pm

rabbittss wrote:
mv wrote:


It's just so dehumanizing, to see women thrown away as prospects solely because they have children already. I'm so glad it's not like that here. :wink:


I don't think it's dehumanizing to not want to raise and support some other guy's children.


But that is a HUGE leap in reason you are making there. What makes you think that's what she wants? What makes you assume that the father, who's still in the picture, would even allow that?

For example, like I said, no one gets to even meet my children until the relationship gets to a level where I'm comfortable with them knowing my kids. No one would *ever* be allowed to support or raise my children (I make more money than most of the men I meet, anyway, that's just reality), other than their father. And that's how it should be.

I think you'll find that this is more often the situation than you think. Yes, this woman that Boo's interested in is living with her folks, so she needs to figure out how to support herself, but I still maintain that it's a giant assumption that she's looking for a new daddy for her kids, especially with the dad still in the picture.



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Jan 2012, 6:28 pm

mv wrote:
rabbittss wrote:
mv wrote:


It's just so dehumanizing, to see women thrown away as prospects solely because they have children already. I'm so glad it's not like that here. :wink:


I don't think it's dehumanizing to not want to raise and support some other guy's children.


But that is a HUGE leap in reason you are making there. What makes you think that's what she wants? What makes you assume that the father, who's still in the picture, would even allow that?

For example, like I said, no one gets to even meet my children until the relationship gets to a level where I'm comfortable with them knowing my kids. No one would *ever* be allowed to support or raise my children (I make more money than most of the men I meet, anyway, that's just reality), other than their father. And that's how it should be.

I think you'll find that this is more often the situation than you think. Yes, this woman that Boo's interested in is living with her folks, so she needs to figure out how to support herself, but I still maintain that it's a giant assumption that she's looking for a new daddy for her kids, especially with the dad still in the picture.


by Papa boo I meant as a second father-like figure and not literally a dad replacement.


Quote:
For example, like I said, no one gets to even meet my children until the relationship gets to a level where I'm comfortable with them knowing my kids. No one would *ever* be allowed to support or raise my children (I make more money than most of the men I meet, anyway, that's just reality), other than their father. And that's how it should be.


It depends, some might hate their ex-husbands so much for various reasons (ie. if father is alcoholic and beats children) that they don't want them to raise their children anymore, It all depends on how bad their relationship was and how it persisted after divorce.



mv
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28 Jan 2012, 6:32 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It depends, some might hate their ex-husbands so much for various reasons (ie. if father is alcoholic and beats children) that they don't want them to raise their children anymore, It all depends on how bad their relationship was and how it persisted after divorce.


Oh, sure, of course. But that doesn't mean the automatic assumption that she's looking for husband/daddy 2.0 valid. Everyone has a different story. And unless the court has severed the parental relationship, she'd likely have no choice in the matter (how much her ex- is involved).



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Jan 2012, 6:39 pm

mv wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It depends, some might hate their ex-husbands so much for various reasons (ie. if father is alcoholic and beats children) that they don't want them to raise their children anymore, It all depends on how bad their relationship was and how it persisted after divorce.


Oh, sure, of course. But that doesn't mean the automatic assumption that she's looking for husband/daddy 2.0 valid.


Maybe the assumption she's looking for daddy 2.0 is a bit too soon, I agree.

But the default assumption she's look for husband still valid, as I've explained earlier why.


Quote:
Everyone has a different story. And unless the court has severed the parental relationship, she'd likely have no choice in the matter (how much her ex- is involved).


I don't know what sect she is, so I can't tell what kind of laws would be applied on their divorce lol.



mv
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28 Jan 2012, 6:47 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
mv wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It depends, some might hate their ex-husbands so much for various reasons (ie. if father is alcoholic and beats children) that they don't want them to raise their children anymore, It all depends on how bad their relationship was and how it persisted after divorce.


Oh, sure, of course. But that doesn't mean the automatic assumption that she's looking for husband/daddy 2.0 valid.


Maybe the assumption she's looking for daddy 2.0 is a bit too soon, I agree.

But the default assumption she's look for husband still valid, as I've explained earlier why.


Quote:
Everyone has a different story. And unless the court has severed the parental relationship, she'd likely have no choice in the matter (how much her ex- is involved).


I don't know what sect she is, so I can't tell what kind of laws would be applied on their divorce lol.


Oh, sorry, I didn't mean your girl, I meant "generic single mom"!

And that's truly disturbing that civil things are decided along religious lines. I assume you meant religious sect? Regardless, {shudders in disgust}.



The_Face_of_Boo
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28 Jan 2012, 6:51 pm

mv wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
mv wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
It depends, some might hate their ex-husbands so much for various reasons (ie. if father is alcoholic and beats children) that they don't want them to raise their children anymore, It all depends on how bad their relationship was and how it persisted after divorce.


Oh, sure, of course. But that doesn't mean the automatic assumption that she's looking for husband/daddy 2.0 valid.


Maybe the assumption she's looking for daddy 2.0 is a bit too soon, I agree.

But the default assumption she's look for husband still valid, as I've explained earlier why.


Quote:
Everyone has a different story. And unless the court has severed the parental relationship, she'd likely have no choice in the matter (how much her ex- is involved).


I don't know what sect she is, so I can't tell what kind of laws would be applied on their divorce lol.


Oh, sorry, I didn't mean your girl, I meant "generic single mom"!

And that's truly disturbing that civil things are decided along religious lines. I assume you meant religious sect? Regardless, {shudders in disgust}.



Welcome to the Middle-east.

PS: yes, religious sect, as denomination.



nostromo
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29 Jan 2012, 2:40 am

Henbane wrote:
Muchly felicitations.

Scroll the screen up and down and try and read your post it looks like 'Much fellatios'.
Well does to me :?



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29 Jan 2012, 1:01 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
no, not personally at all. but when you make blanket statements about women, you're going to get some backlash

That has been a common thing on WP (for alleged statetements...), for a long time, so................ so what?

Quote:
especially since you have absolutely zero evidence for what you're saying.

Wrong. Anecdotal evidence isn't zero evidence. And... the issue looks related to statistics, the tendency to show Y women for X men and relating it with the places in which occur and culture, is reasonable. You don't (or didn't) have much of a case.