It will not work...it can't work..

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The_Face_of_Boo
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18 Jun 2016, 3:21 pm

So I had an iftar (the dinner meal that muslims take at dusk time to break their fasting) with my...I can't know whether to call her my close lady friend or girlfriend or... I dunno anymore - but let's say she's too affectionate with me to be seen by her just as friend (in brief, it's complicated). I knew her since 2012 - within a tiny group of friends sharing common interests - however we were going out extensively very lately just the two of us; like countless of times, and she's the one who is initiating most the times.
Needless to say, I almost know everything about her, she even knows that I am atheist. In fact, among my whole social circle; she is the only person besides my parents/siblings and my atheist coworker who knows that about me. I admit I am kinda attached to her too; we do share a lot of interests.

Anyway, she is a devout mulsim, like... very devout - she doesn't wear any veil but she does not drink, nor she accepts any drink on a table she shares, she only goes to women-only pools, prefers women-only gyms...

Anyway, during the dinner she dropped a bomb question of akwardness: "don't you feel any curiosity to try fasting again and get the feeling?" - it got me awkward and I was like "you know I was used to fast as a teen so I still recall how it is like".

It was so awkward. Does she still hope me to return to her faith?

And honestly what makes things worse I do have a problem with Islam, I... do not respect this religion and despise Mohammad's teachings but she doesn't know that side about me. Islam is the only religion that I really cannot find anything in it to respect.

I feel like I am dragging myself and her to something that won't work... I don't know what to do.

I am kinda torn, feeling I am wasting time and my hair is getting greyer.



nopantspolicy
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18 Jun 2016, 3:36 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
And honestly what makes things worse I do have a problem with Islam, I... do not respect this religion and despise Mohammad's teachings but she doesn't know that side about me. Islam is the only religion that I really cannot find anything in it to respect.

I feel like I am dragging myself and her to something that won't work... I don't know what to do.


Oh, an easy question! Don't date a religious woman who wants you to convert if you don't see yourself becoming islam. It'll just result in disaster.



Raleigh
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18 Jun 2016, 4:17 pm

You said in the title of this thread that it won't work and can't work, so it seems like you've already decided.

So what are you torn about?


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18 Jun 2016, 4:26 pm

I'm guessing people will question why you don't go out with her even though to outsiders it seems like the right choice? And this is what you will fear because you are an Athiest and prefer not to conform to your local traditions?

It sounds like you feel you are trapped and as much as you like her it's not the right choice for you but you are being pushed to take it.


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TomS
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19 Jun 2016, 12:08 am

In our time religion is very politicized and in many places militant. But it doesn't have to be that way. There have been times when it was just the spiritual aspect of life, more private.

For a couple, having the same basic spiritual beliefs makes things easier, but is no guarentee of success. With a couple with different beliefs respecting each others and never criticizing or belittling is I think essential. Further you can't do anything that comes in the way of them following their religion. You should actually try and aid them if needed. You do it because you care about the person.

It might happen that one or the other might change over time but that can't be expected or counted on. It should also be discussed fully so there are no misunderstandings or false assumptions.

I wouldn't push someone away I loved because of differing beliefs if I thought we could coexist in harmony. But thats only half the story. They might push you away.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jun 2016, 3:08 am

TheSpectrum wrote:
I'm guessing people will question why you don't go out with her even though to outsiders it seems like the right choice? And this is what you will fear because you are an Athiest and prefer not to conform to your local traditions?

It sounds like you feel you are trapped and as much as you like her it's not the right choice for you but you are being pushed to take it.


No outsiders are involved, there's nothing official; and I am sure she keeps it secret from her family.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jun 2016, 3:15 am

TomS wrote:
In our time religion is very politicized and in many places militant. But it doesn't have to be that way. There have been times when it was just the spiritual aspect of life, more private.

For a couple, having the same basic spiritual beliefs makes things easier, but is no guarentee of success. With a couple with different beliefs respecting each others and never criticizing or belittling is I think essential. Further you can't do anything that comes in the way of them following their religion. You should actually try and aid them if needed. You do it because you care about the person.

It might happen that one or the other might change over time but that can't be expected or counted on. It should also be discussed fully so there are no misunderstandings or false assumptions.

I wouldn't push someone away I loved because of differing beliefs if I thought we could coexist in harmony. But thats only half the story. They might push you away.


I don't want to discuss religions in depth here, but you can't analyze all religions as the same.
Look, since its dawn, Islam was always very politicized and militant, it is like this to its very core.
Sufists tried to spiritualize it, but they got persecuted in return.



TomS
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19 Jun 2016, 8:17 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
TomS wrote:
In our time religion is very politicized and in many places militant. But it doesn't have to be that way. There have been times when it was just the spiritual aspect of life, more private.

For a couple, having the same basic spiritual beliefs makes things easier, but is no guarentee of success. With a couple with different beliefs respecting each others and never criticizing or belittling is I think essential. Further you can't do anything that comes in the way of them following their religion. You should actually try and aid them if needed. You do it because you care about the person.

It might happen that one or the other might change over time but that can't be expected or counted on. It should also be discussed fully so there are no misunderstandings or false assumptions.

I wouldn't push someone away I loved because of differing beliefs if I thought we could coexist in harmony. But thats only half the story. They might push you away.


I don't want to discuss religions in depth here, but you can't analyze all religions as the same.
Look, since its dawn, Islam was always very politicized and militant, it is like this to its very core.
Sufists tried to spiritualize it, but they got persecuted in return.


That is very unfortunate. It seems then you are doubly at variance with your society. Aspie and Atheist. Leaving that envirionment is the first thing that comes to mind. But I know that may not be an option. It is your home. And going somewhere else exchanges one difference for another.



marshall
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19 Jun 2016, 12:12 pm

That sounds really hard. I feel like there will be major problems if she insists on trying to convert you though. :(



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19 Jun 2016, 12:53 pm

Is this the only comment she's made? Maybe she just needs to try to convert you briefly, if only to understand you. If she doesn't realize though that your opinions are strong, then that may prove to be very difficult. I wish you both well with it.

Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what this feeling is that she feels when she goes through the fasting process? I really don't get it.



The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jun 2016, 1:37 pm

Quote:
That is very unfortunate. It seems then you are doubly at variance with your society. Aspie and Atheist. Leaving that envirionment is the first thing that comes to mind. But I know that may not be an option. It is your home. And going somewhere else exchanges one difference for another.


Tried to move to one of the Christian areas of the country (about half of the population), but estate owners there do not accept any non-Christians buyers; it's a church policy they follow to preserve the integrity of demography...as they say. old fears...

I do know a former-muslim atheist acquaintance who did move the Christian district of the capital which is less than one hr away, but only as renter, and he's of the super extrovert kind (he has tons of the friends there) so he could manage it, price is insane though.



Quote:
Is this the only comment she's made? Maybe she just needs to try to convert you briefly, if only to understand you. If she doesn't realize though that your opinions are strong, then that may prove to be very difficult. I wish you both well with it.



Not the first time, it seems she still hopefully trying to find out if there's any faith left in me.



Quote:
Out of curiosity, do you have any idea what this feeling is that she feels when she goes through the fasting process? I really don't get it


Uhm...personally I would just feel hunger and thirst! but I am sure she was referring to some spiritual feeling she gets during fasting.



androbot01
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19 Jun 2016, 2:46 pm

Not sharing the same spiritual beliefs could become a huge pain over time. Especially if she wants to "change" you. I think you should turn the game around and try to get her to drink some wine.



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19 Jun 2016, 2:47 pm

The combination of people who care about you and are seriously religious is really crappy, since they think the best thing they could do for you is save your soul. I am very familiar with it from childhood, in this case the born-again-Christian kind. Such people can be capable of doing and saying unspeakable things, because they are so convinced they are right. They focus on all the wrong things.

Maybe your friend is not like that....but there is always a potential for an ugly moment when it finally dawns on them that you don't want to change, couldn't change if you wanted to. Some religious people are strange that way - it's the worst case of self-reference ever. They can't believe you are not, deep down, feeling the same thing they are, and when they do realize, it's an ugly shock.

I'm not saying your friend is like that, it's only a possibility. Why don't you wait and see if she brings up stuff like that again?

It's crap being a minority everywhere. And yet you have the family you have and the friends you have and you can't just go back in a time machine and change things.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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19 Jun 2016, 3:17 pm

androbot01 wrote:
Not sharing the same spiritual beliefs could become a huge pain over time. Especially if she wants to "change" you. I think you should turn the game around and try to get her to drink some wine.


Just some wine...

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0_equals_true
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19 Jun 2016, 4:54 pm

There was a study on this and it turns out that more calories are consumed during Ramadan than otherwise.

This is becuase people gorge before sunrise and after sundown.

So it isn't really emulating being without food like those who have no choice.



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19 Jun 2016, 6:49 pm

Sounds like your head is pulling one way and your heart the other way in this relationship. If so then I can understand the problem.

Maybe the two of you could take a course together in comparative religion at some local college (and make a contract to both keep open minds).

Strike a deal with her. You agree to be open minded to religion in general, if she agrees to be open minded to religions other than Islam.

Instead of being an atheist dating a mainstream muslim, you both might end up adopting something in between. A liberal creed with kinship to Islam,but not mainstream Islam, maybe like the Bahai faith, or Unitarianism, or both end up exploring Sufi based Islam (which I get the impression is a more mellow version of Islam). Could be the start of an interesting journey. Just a crazy thought.