Quoted: "Do you even understand why people get together?"

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This was said to me by my former friend the first year of college. That was when I met my first girlfriend. I tried to rush commitment with her after our first date, with the winter dance coming up soon, since I wanted to go there with a partner. When I told him about her, he picked up on the fact that I found her unattractive and boring. I pointed out to him that having a partner was the norm for people our age, plus I didn't have a car and therefore didn't have many dating options, so I was doing what I had to do. (That particular girl didn't care that I didn't have a car, and even took buses with me.) He angrily reacted: "Do you even understand why people get together?" (in a romantic sense)
I fought back with: "Let me answer that with a question: Did you go to your prom?" (I did not.)
"Yes."
"With who?"
"With [his girlfriend's name]."
"Asked and answered!"
"Dude, I'm done arguing! Believe what you want to believe!"

I found his reaction to be unfair, and ended the conversation. At the time, he had a car, and looked a lot better than me, and his girlfriend was attractive too. So comparing me and him was like comparing apples and oranges. He met her effortlessly and had the luxury of choosing her, while I had to settle for the first girl who showed interest. (Well, 13 years later, the Red Pill gave me the explanation I was looking for, but back in 2002, it didn't exist.)

So basically, I was implying that people get into relationships because social norms require having a romantic partner. After all, all academic event above elementary school, including college events, require coming with a date to look normal. Single people are "encouraged" to stay the hell away. So for me, it was either date that girl or not go to the winter dance, which I REALLY wanted to do. And since I didn't go to my prom (because I was ugly, and didn't have a car in a car-centric high school), going to that dance became even more crucial in my mind. Plus, I treated her very nicely and gave her the romantic experiences I knew girls were looking for. Like the river promenade we went for our first date, where the moon created a trail of light on the river, combined with the city lights on the banks.

So... what are people's thoughts on this? Do people ACTUALLY get into relationship to comply with the social norms? Or was that just my AS-driven misperception, combined with my young age and lack of a car?

Last edited by Aspie1 on 07 May 2022, 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

I think this is another “Red Pill / Involuntarily Celibate / I-Can’t-Get-A-Girlfriend” thread.

No, it's not. Next question!

I think I understand the point you were trying to make to your friend OP. Different people get together for LOTS of various reasons. It may be personality, physical attraction, having common interests, financial reasons, or sometimes the desire to look cool & fit in. There's a reason girls tend to want to date the popular jocks in high-school. I don't get the difference between a person wanting to date someone because they're popular & cool vs wanting to date to comply with social norms since wanting to comply with social norms is based on a desire to fit in which is related to coolness They should both be equally acceptable or equally wrong.

From what I've seen on this forum, some Aspie guys who regularly complain about being single are waaay to picky & have extremely unrealistic standards. They see being with anyone who does not meet exactly what they want & do not want as them settling. It seems to me like you were trying to be realistic & sometimes real love can develop from situations like that where a couple just get together due them having limited options. I got together with my current girlfriend because I was very desperate & we both really do love each other. You had just asked the girl on a date, it's NOT like you told her you loved her & asked her to marry you so you could fit it.

That's exactly what I was aiming for. I figured my options were extremely limited, due to me being ugly and not having a car, and I figured so were hers, due to her being unattractive. While I did settle for her, I also understood that dating an attractive girl wasn't in the cards for me: my ugly face and lack of a car thwarted that. So, two undesirable people getting together seemed like a perfect match in my mind at the time.

Well, as I learned from the Red Pill, even the most unattractive women have nearly limitless options. Unattractive men, especially carless unattractive men, do not. If I only knew in 2002 what I know in 2022.

I had no car until I was 51. No license until age 37.

I had sex thousands of times with about 30 women before I got my license—none of whom were escorts.

Not saying this to brag….only saying this to seek to disprove all this Red Pill crap.

I’m a thoroughly beta man.

Duuuude! You're in New York. That's literally the ONLY place in America where it's socially acceptable not to have a car or a license. Miss Cleo herself didn't have a license, and took the subway or taxis everywhere, from what I saw on TV.

If I magically got a driver's license at 16 or managed to buy a fake one, and won a car somehow, I'd probably never even know that girl existed.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 07 May 2022, 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

I lived in a place, in Queens, where every kid got his license by the age of 18.

Though, of course, I benefited from the subway. Couldn’t afford to take taxis.

And I certainly wasn’t a Chad by any stretch of the imagination.

I took buses and trains in my city too, including on my dates, until I got a car. Also taxis. Including after the winter dance with my date---it cost me $50! I didn't want risk us getting robbed on a train at night. Of course, now that I'm older and look more rugged, I sometimes stay in the city after work to party and take a late-evening train home, with no issues at all.

That said, a part of the problem was my limited definition of what constituted "romantic", which I picked up from TV shows: it was things involving darkness and natural scenery, like my city's river promenade at night; or fine dining, which I couldn't afford during college. While if I knew back then what I know right now, I could have taken her to play with pets at the rescue society in my city's downtown, followed by a dinner at a casual taco place---as opposed to me going all out to create a "romantic" experience for her. Plus, I'd have a much better time playing with dogs and cats, than creating a "romantic" experience I had no interest in myself, other than to create a situation where kissing (and more) can happen.

Interestingly, I took my lady friend on a cruise to the bow of the ship late at night---only instead of being "romantic", I made dirty "Uranus" jokes while pointing out the night sky to her. And she was as entertained by it as I expected my first girlfriend to be by my "romance", with barely 1% of the effort on my part. I knew it because she pressed into me while laughing. Which my first girlfriend never did.

Last edited by Aspie1 on 07 May 2022, 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

You got lucky with that particular woman.

Which woman: the cruise lady or the college girl?

For the cruise lady, I did eventually kiss her. Only it wasn't on the deck the night I made "Uranus" jokes; it was the next night, which was the last night of the cruise, when me and her danced together in the ship's nightclub. Interestingly, when me and her exchanged Facebook contacts, I learned that she was engaged. Oops! Oh well.

For the college girl, there was no "luck". I didn't even kiss her. We pretty much stopped talking after that winter dance, other than the hellos when running into each other on campus. Neither me nor her felt much loss.

I meant the cruise lady.

I wouldn’t have made Uranus jokes looking at the sunset…..but that’s just me

I've never consciously thought of social norms, usually it's more a matter of finding that there's someone who I mesh with in terms of personality, want to spend lots of time around and want to f**k, who also feels the same about me.

A lot of the time these relationships develop organically and the point at which they became a romantic relationship isn't always clear. Some of the time my inability to pick up on hints might mean I was being pursued, there's other times where it's clear I was but also times where it's clear I wasn't.

I think your friend thought you looked at dating the girl as just a milestone without considering both her as a person as well as the whole aspect of seeing her as a means to an end (getting to attend social gatherings with a date) rather than as a person to invest your time, attention and concern into; essentially leading her on emotionally. Honestly, it almost sounds like you're describing your end of the relationship like you were a sex trade worker with a client: I gave her the full boyfriend experience, all the romantic basics were included.

If one's explanation for their relationship is I had to settle for someone I don't like just to have someone at all they owe it to their partner to let them go find someone who will actually be grateful for them and stop pretending they're that person.

You're right that a lot of people get into relationships just to conform to social norms but that's a significant factor in why many younger people's romantic relationships are doomed to failure. They haven't figured out how to find more appropriate partners and have encountered someone similar in that regard. If they don't really know what they want except just to have a partner they might end up with a partner but not much else beyond someone who qualifies as that. This might contribute to why older cohorts have higher divorce rates than younger ones right now, the younger ones often married later and with less pressure to do it for the wrong reasons.

Long term relationships formed like that are prone to cheating if someone who's exciting and more emotionally fulfilling comes along, often not because that person has much to offer but simply because they satisfy that need to actually wanted instead of merely tolerated. In that scenario it's not that hard for someone to be more emotionally fulfilling than the partner and that plays a role in why a lot of people who get cheated on seem to get cheated on with pretty dysfunctional people. They don't need to be suitable as partners, they just provide something that's needed for a long time.

Well, it wasn't sunset; it was 2:00 AM, after a late-night karaoke. While I'm sure I'd see a sunset that late on an Alaska cruise in June, it was a Pacific Mexico cruise in September.

Anyway... she seemed like the type of woman who'd enjoy Uranus jokes: she had sleeve-length tattoos and a propensity for dropping F-bombs. While my first girlfriend was nothing like that. I was 36 when I took that cruise; by that age, I got good at adapting to my audience when it came to humor.

That is simply not true, except maybe on the more hookup-oriented dating apps, other hookup-oriented venues, and perhaps other, more esoteric predominantly-male subcultures. But most women are just not interested in hookups, which is one of the reasons why these venues are predominantly male in the first place. So, lots of women have difficulty finding men who are genuinely interested in a potential longterm relationship with them.

All academic events? Or just proms and other dance events?

I recall plenty of college student club events where the majority of people did not show up with dates.

Also, at my high school (Bronx High School of Science), I simply did not attend the prom, and neither did the vast majority of students if I recall correctly. There wasn't the kind of social pressure to attend the prom, in the first place, that there apparently is in many high schools. This fact was a big relief for me. I was under the impression, back then, that proms at other high schools were a huge headache for all involved, and I just didn't see the point of it all.