Manipulating people is "polite"

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Hmm, I disagree with the definition of manipulation in this thread.

Wiki definiton:
Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others through underhanded, unfair tactics. By advancing only the interests of the manipulator, often at another's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative, abusive, devious, and deceptive.
Social influence is not necessarily negative. For example, doctors try to persuade patients to change unhealthy habits. Social influence is harmless when it respects the right of the influenced to accept or reject it, and is not unduly coercive. Depending on the context and motivations, social influence may constitute underhanded manipulation.

Indirectness or asking someone to do something isn't manipulation.
Direct honesty is also going to get you into trouble. I can tell lies without actually lying.

"Like my haircut?"
"It's really interesting!"
See? I might think it's shocking but the answer to the person will make them think I like it, but 'interesting' can have so many meanings.

The sidelong way of asking someone to do something, like saying "The walk needs to be shoveled," as opposed to, "Will you shovel the walk?" is one pf my pet peeves. It took me ages to realize that when my NT husband says something like, "Why is there no liner in the trash bag?" what he really means is, "Will you put a liner in the trash bag?" I would answer him, usually by, "Oh, sorry, I forgot." I assumed that he would do it, but he did not. The opposite has also happened. I'll ask, "Why is your cereal bowl on the living room couch?" really meaning I want to know why it is there, and not in the kitchen. It does not mean, "Take your cereal bowl to the kitchen." I can and will do that myself, so it makes me nuts that when he sees something undone, he doesn't just take care of it himself!

regarding situations like "does this ....make me look fat...." I tend to say that I prefer another style on the person.. or "it doesn't really suit you" depending on how well I know the person I will actually be blunt and say "yes it accentuates your.... ( whatever part of anatomy is under scrutiny"
To let a person walk around in something that really doesn't suit them by telling them they "look great/good" is very cruel.


Regarding MANIPULATION ...... Various sorts of manipulation... the sort cited in the posts ....and BULLYING

I have a young relative who always manipulates people into doing what he/she wants because he/she makes life unbearable in various ways for those who thwart him/her. He/She is in fact a BULLY of the FIRST ORDER...... ......
I've noticed some people go through life like this and actually get all their own way.....if people oppose them all should beware..... they become feared rather than liked... but if their thing is power over others then they have succeeded. However, I have noticed that these people seem to LACK any real depth in feeling joy or sorrow......all is on a superficial level......sort of like NT chit chat level.

Here's manipulation. When I was about 25 my sister in law and my brother lived on the other side of the country from me. They are both medicos Doctor/RN and were both working nights in NICU. Her aunt lived with them to take care of the kids. When the aunt decided to go on an extended visit to other family members, my SIL started calling me up and talking to me about how I needed a change and I should move in with them because they were in a city that offered so many more opportunities and it would be a new beginning and blah blah blah. So I went out there, I didn't know what was wrong with me then but I know now I was clinically depressed. I was supposed to be looking for a job but I was supposed to be watching the kids too. I was unhappy. My SIL would not speak to me for days and went around slamming doors. BTW My brother is clueless, very smart but clueless. So about the time the aunt is due back she starts in on me about how I should go back and all the reasons which were opposite of the reasons she thought I should go out there in the first place. Understand that I was a different person then. I was absolutely immobilized with depression and self loathing. It took me years to figure out what she had done.She's very good at stroking someone to get what she wants. Now if she had told me her aunt was leaving and they needed help and would I like to come out for a while I would have. I think she has a personality disorder.

Indirect requests is considered polite in many situations, cause it gives people an easier time saying no.

To use the snow shoveling example, if I ask a friend or family member directly - its harder for them to say no. They may feel forced to do me this favor cause I asked. If I hint, they can chose to "not understand" my hint. That way they dont feel they have to decline doing something for me, and I dont have to feel bad for possibly pushing them into something they dont want.

At least thats how it works in my end of the world. The hints and indirect requests is maybe as dumb as telling someone to volonteer for something, but its intention is a sort of subtle social rule on how to ask someone of something, without asking.

In a way me saying to my family member "Siiigh. The driveway needs shoveling." is the same as me saying to them "Would you please shovel the drive way? Its perfectly OK for you to say no, I can do it, Im just a bit tired. I perfectly understand if you are too, no bad feelings.".


In another sense, indirect requests and hints like that is more an opening for you to offer yourself, rather than a request of you doing something.



It can appear in other situations too. "I have nooo plans for Saturday night at all. Man, that will be boring." - it might not be meant manipulative. The person could just be too scared of facing a rejection and offering you a chance to ask the person out / ask the person to do something together.


Im not good at explaining, english isnt first language. Sorry.

The other day my mum was taking down the Christmas tree. After she had done, she came upstairs (where I was), so I went out of my room and said hello to her. Suddenly, she decided to get annoyed at me because I apparently should have helped her, despite the fact she never asked me for any sort of help! I said this to her, and her reply was that I should have offered... Well, the thought never crossed my mind, and IMO just assuming it will instead of actually asking for help is stupid.

In the end, if she had just asked for help, she would have got it and everything would be fine.

Seriously, some of the things NTs do seem so pointless...

I also notice how people seem to expect you to offer things without them asking you. Like when I was 17, we go to the monster truck show and I bring ear plugs I bought. The whole thing was loud and some people covered their ears and then my mom started to cover hers because she couldn't take it anymore. After the show, my mom saw I had ear plugs and said I should have given her some and I told her I didn't know she wanted them. She said more after that about it. I assumed she did fine covering her ears, not the fact she was suffering with sore arms. I thought if it bothered her so much, she would have said something like "I should have brought ear plugs." I might have said then "I have some" and she would have asked if she can use a pair. I would have given her a pair.

Even my ex did the same thing to me so I was labeled self centered by him. I didn't offer things because I was always expecting him to ask for it. I can't read minds. Ironically he was aspie.

I don't expect things out of people. I have to ask for it because I do not expect them to read my mind. It's as if even people off the spectrum lack theory of mind. I think they do lack it. They expect you to know things they know and offer it to them without them asking.

eh, suprising thing I found out, Its really easy for me to manipulate people, even though I am an aspergian. Usually revolves around me having no money, I make a subtle remark to people about it, and they give me a few bucks with no need to pay it back. Most ive gotten so far is like $40ish