Does this girl have AS?

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Hi! I have mild AS (I'm not even sure if I'd qualify for AS nowadays -- I've compensated for most of the disabilities) and finally met a girl --or have I? Read on. She's pretty bright -- Ph.D student at a prestigious school. There's a catch, though: she's got some weird quirks to her personality which seem familiar.

VERY familiar.

Like I was when I was less healthy and was more in the thrall of AS.

She claims her parents once asked if she was autistic, and they said no. However, I'm not autistic if you think about it -- they probably didn't know much about AS at the time.

I took a look at the DSM-IV. I probably matched maybe 90% (perhaps even all -- I don't remember everything from those days) of the AS criteria when I was younger, maybe 60-70% now. The thing that's interesting is that the girl also matches about 70% of the criteria -- different aspects, to say the least, but there nonetheless. This makes her as much an Aspie as I am. I know I am (or at least was), now I'm starting to wonder.

Consider the following.

1. I go to the beach with her and a friend of mine. She then goes off by herself and spends all her time looking for shells and four-leaf-clovers. VERY familiar.

2. She claims she suppresses all desire -- someone's fighting to stifle emotions. She doesn't like playing games because she's afraid she'll lose.

3. She almost never talks, even when she's with me. Ironically, I believe I've overcompensated and now talk too much.

4. She always thinks of excuses not to enjoy herself and is constantly pessimistic. I do too, to some extent.

5. She tends to respond with a lot of "one word answers". It's very awkward. For the first time, I get the sense I'm starting to see myself from the outside. She just seems to take everything like "blah". She doesn't really show any joy. It's driving me up a wall. I know at least one girl who got irritated at ME about that.

6. She spends all her time reading astronomical journals (she's a Ph.D. student in astronomy) and factual books. She can't stand fiction, for some reason.

7. I get the sense that she's locked herself in a shell and can't seem to get out of it. I find that quite familiar -- though I feel like my "escape velocity" is higher than hers.

8. Her sisters all say that she and I have similar mannerisms, but I'm more extroverted.

9. She seems MUCH more articulate when she writes emails, and she spends all of her spare time socializing on personality typing bulletin boards online -- she has very few friends in real life.

10. She doesn't like feeling stupid -- and one of the things that irritates her about me is that I seem to give her an intellectual "inferiority complex".

11. She doesn't like or give hugs, but sees them as a necessary evil with her family members.

Does this girl also have AS and not know it? Or she just VERY shy? One of my friends met her and the first thing the friend asked her mother was: "Does she have what ACG has? I always joked around that ACG was Spock, but this girl is Data -- no emotions at all!"

Thanks in advance,

ACG

She's gotta be somewhere on the spectrum. Most likely either HFA w/ splinter skills or AS-and-a-half. She sounds like an interesting person to know.

heh, whats her number......... erm, just kidding
yeah, sounds pretty darn familiar

she could just be smart, tho

She claims to have been diagnosed with ADD when she was younger. She got good grades in elementary school but slacked off in high school when she found herself not doing stuff she found interesting (and that's when she got the diagnosis of ADD). ADD is often a misdiagnosis of AS, is it not? Especially back in the early 90's before AS was officially recognized as a disorder?

She sounds like a near-perfect reflection of myself. I'm HFA.

1. When I go out with my friends, I'm simply THERE. While I don't go off by myself, its similar.
2. Its more simply an extreme entrenchment in neutrality. Anything that disturbs you from that state is powerful and felt strongly. Suppression is a necessity. Losing things has always been identified as a problem with autistics. Losing games always makes me mad.
3. I almost never talk either, but instead of thinking its a bad thing, its actually a good thing. I've identified 4 levels of personal interaction for myself:

1. External. Interaction almost entirely mechanical. Interaction is mostly run through scripts and routines. Most people remain here.
2. Intermediate. Interaction isn't run through scripts, for most part. Feel comfortable being with you in silence, and no need to talk. Mainly limited to requests for information and responses to questions.
3. Close. Interaction is two-way and recipricol. As an outside observer, there would appear to be a personality change. The real personality and the way I think are revealed, because I'll often say things I wouldn't normally. Jokes that I find funny, for example; personal remarks, which are taboo for the first 2 levels. Still long periods of silent enjoyment of company. "White lies" are dropped. Physical proximity is tolerable. Immediate family are the main people at this stage.
4. Intimate. Physical proximity is pleasurable.

4. Excuses like what? A pessimist view to you is probably just her neutral state. Neutrality is often mistaken like that.
5. More neutrality here. You get like that, when you have a bit of executive dysfunction, and things just happen. It'll be more comfortable for her if you do the deciding. Just do whatever you think would be enjoyable for her and yourself, and look for signs that she's not enjoying it. The normal signs won't really apply here. Again, too, its really a good sign.
6. Not unusual. Probably her perseveration.
7. That's a crappy observation. Words can't express what awful feelings you just inspired: Horror/hate/dislike. Don't take it personally, but its not something you should be trying to get her "out" of. You just have to work your way down through her levels of interaction. If you can't just BE there, and let things happen, it won't work out well.
8. Congratulations.
9. Its infinitely easier to communicate/socialise in writing than verbally. The ease of it gives an almost euphoric feeling compared with frustration and stresses of verbal speech and in-person.
10. Who does? Fortunately, I am hugely egocentric, and noone can make me feel inferior. Losing things, ie games, makes me angry and irritated because I always feel there was something uneven or biased in it. Though intellectually I know otherwise. Its the one thing that easily disturbs my neutrality.
11. Me either. Apart from shaking hands, every other physical contact is uncomfortable. If you have aspirations of girlfriend/boyfriend relationship, you better check what you want from the relationship. Hers would probably be very very different from yours.

Your friend doesn't sound very nice. It isn't nice to assume she has no emotions. Of course she does, but often you will have no idea. She is almost definately on the spectrum. Like Sean, my guess would be HFA. Why do you say "with splinter skills", Sean? I can't see anything that would cause such a definitive statement.

Hmmm. What personality type is she? From what I've seen, an higher than usual proportion of INTP's and INTJ's are aspie.

She sounds like someone I would enjoy spending time with, who would not be too socially demanding.

And yes, she does sound either HFA or aspie. Did she have speech delays as a child?

I wanted to add: you say she seems emotionless. She may be fairly neutral/gray as I often am. (but even when I am feelign things, I don't xpress or show it well, so I probably look bored or clueless or unemotional). But it could also be that she's been depressed about something....and depression is pretty common for us. Although, the statement of her running off to look for seashells and four leaf clovers doesn't sound apathetic at all to me...she seems to be deriving joy and interest from life.

ACG,

I'm not a psychological expert by any means but a pattern like that would tell me of her being AS or somwhere on the spectrum of autism. She sounds like an interesting person to know

You say she doesn't talk much. Is there an interest or passion in her that really gets her to "light up"? If there is, I'm sure she must be a fountain of knowledge in her "department" Astronomy and facts, not fiction, hmmmmm... And a better writer than a talker -yeah, that's me

She's locked herself in a shell -well so was I until I got Dx'd and could finally accept my condition for what it is. Since that revelation, I've become probably the most extroverted Aspie that can be found.

...And yes, we Aspies do tend to look like Data and Spock

Now comes the big question.

Should I tell her or a family member (I know the family pretty well)?

As far as they know, she has ADD. Her parents asked if she was autistic, and they said no. However, I doubt the doctor who diagnosed her knew about HFA.

ACG

Argh *scream*
Where have you people got it in your head that she's "locked herself in a shell"? Jesus christ, would you give it up?!
You sound like those bloody psychs of the 70's who thought inside every person with autism was a normal person who was locked behind a "shell". Its not a shell; its not something you 'come out of'. Its just a different system of interaction.

Sounds familiar, my parents had me assessed for autism when I was a kid and were told I was 'hyperactive' (what would now be called ADHD) - back then the diagnosis of AS didn't exist, so a diagnosis of ADHD or ADD was very common amongst those around my age who are now finding out about AS.

Don't talk to her family about it - if someone did that to me I would feel as if they were discussing me behind my back and it would make me very angry and upset. If you are close to her I see no harm in asking her about it though, and let her decide if she wants to follow up any information you give her.

I have a friend or two I know on the internet, one who is offically ADD. However I suspect he might have AS as well.

It seems to me, like she's slightly further down the Spectrum. There was a guy like that in my College Class.

She sounds like me, in my non NT emulation way of being.
Especially when i started uni.

At uni i'd go to class and then between classes i'd work on programming on my laptop or browse the science library and not socialise with anyone, nor did i want to. When I got food from the cafeteria i'd sit by myself at an empty table and not take part in the group thing going on.

I problably went a month at times without saying anything.

i'm still like that now if you know what to look for.
If I hadn't had to preform any interaction for a while or i'm working on something I don't do facial expressions or body language or anything.

There's another girl who was in CS who was like that. She has closed type headphones on every time i've seen her except for in exams and i've never heard her speak.
She doesn't need anyone.

I wish i could be like that.
The coldness of being stone and self sufficent like that appeals to me.
So many of my problems would go away if i could be like that.

This girl sounds like an interesting person, and I do not doubt that she is on the spectrum. It is kind of rude, though, to assume that she is as unemotional as she acts, and that her world can legitimately be called a "shell". I...um...hope she has not been informed of that perception people have of her.

Your post also makes me wonder how I might appear to other people. I probably keep to myself as much as your friend does, giving brief scripted answers when absolutely necessary while trying very hard not to ruin my environment by injecting my own emotions and desires into other people's lives. I guess I must appear somewhat damaged and encapsulated then, even to some of the other Aspies around me (where/if applicable)?

Yes, exactly, Glasskitten. That perception is wrong on so many levels. Might I also add that you shouldn't worry if they have such a perception of you. Are you happy?

I agree on assuing she's unemotional. At the times when I shut down my NT emulation or limit the scope of it, it's a holding pattern to keep a level head until I can deal with the pain caused by other people. Things like getting dumped (again) will make me go into that mode of being. To the outside world i appear cold and unemotional. But inside i'm hurt and heart broken. So it's dangerous to make those kinds of assumptions.