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Aalto
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07 Dec 2008, 2:09 pm

Pat Condell is a very intelligent being. I've been subscribed to him for a few months. Find him very witty with his points. He's no Hicks or anything, but who is?

DentArthurDent
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07 Dec 2008, 2:50 pm

Orwell wrote:

It does kind of suck being villainized and pigeonholed by both sides. Well, ToS, I guess that's just the burden that comes with being radical moderates. :wink:

Firstly I have to support your statement that you do not proselytise on this forum.

I think most atheists would shut up if there were not constant attempts by the various religious leaders to be granted the right to be the default moral arbiter.

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Orwell
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07 Dec 2008, 2:56 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

I think most atheists would shut up if there were not constant attempts by the various religious leaders to be granted the right to be the default moral arbiter.

The real shame is that it's not even the mainstream religious who do that, but the fringe people with the most warped sense of morality. (I'm looking at the Baptists here...) Trust me here, I hate those people just as much as any atheist does, all the more so because their foolishness and bigotry perpetuates negative stereotypes that sometimes get applied to me.

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slowmutant
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07 Dec 2008, 4:08 pm

People like Jerry Falwell?

Who ought to be the moral arbiter on WrongPlanet, anyway? The religious seem to want it just as much as th atheist camp. But which is rightful heir? Who should be reaching for that scepter and who should not? The arguments fo ownership of that position are arbitrary.

I say it should be some of both, so that one is held in check by the other.

DentArthurDent
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08 Dec 2008, 2:47 pm

Decisions on ethics and morality should be arrived at by discussion not determined by supernatural stories that originate from a time of ignorance

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08 Dec 2008, 3:01 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Who ought to be the moral arbiter on WrongPlanet, anyway?

Alex and the mods?

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slowmutant
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08 Dec 2008, 10:15 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Decisions on ethics and morality should be arrived at by discussion not determined by supernatural stories that originate from a time of ignorance

No, they should come from our ideals.

DentArthurDent
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09 Dec 2008, 3:10 am

slowmutant wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

Decisions on ethics and morality should be arrived at by discussion not determined by supernatural stories that originate from a time of ignorance

No, they should come from our ideals.

Only if you are going to keep your morality to yourself, if not it needs logical discussion and agreement. Morality and Ethics based around superstition or populist garbage is wrong

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09 Dec 2008, 6:55 am

DentArthurDent wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

Decisions on ethics and morality should be arrived at by discussion not determined by supernatural stories that originate from a time of ignorance

No, they should come from our ideals.

Only if you are going to keep your morality to yourself, if not it needs logical discussion and agreement. Morality and Ethics based around superstition or populist garbage is wrong

You're beginning to sound like an elitist snob.

For all its versatility, science cannot tell us how we should live our lives. Science knows a lot, but it doesn't know right from wrong. It offers no ethical framework, no moral compass.

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09 Dec 2008, 8:19 am

slowmutant wrote:

For all its versatility, science cannot tell us how we should live our lives. Science knows a lot, but it doesn't know right from wrong. It offers no ethical framework, no moral compass.

And it can not do so- science would cease to be science if it delved into a moral code.

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09 Dec 2008, 8:31 am

Orwell wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

For all its versatility, science cannot tell us how we should live our lives. Science knows a lot, but it doesn't know right from wrong. It offers no ethical framework, no moral compass.

And it can not do so- science would cease to be science if it delved into a moral code.

That's my point exactly.

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04 Jan 2009, 6:11 am

history_of_psychiatry wrote:

I'm not sure if anyone here has ever heard of british comedian and philosopher Pat Condell. But his philosophy is dead on when answering the questions of the idiocy of organized religion. Not since George Carlin has their been someone to stand up to the organized religions and the dogmatic nonsense they shove up everyone else's butts. If you are atheist, agnostic, pantheist, or even a narrow-minded religious drone, check him out!

http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell

Condell is nifty. Straight talk from a smart man.

ruveyn

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04 Jan 2009, 6:22 am

DentArthurDent wrote:

Decisions on ethics and morality should be arrived at by discussion not determined by supernatural stories that originate from a time of ignorance

These "supernatural stories" provide the basis for the ethics and morality that science does not have. Face it, there is no inherent morality anwhere in science. There never was.

But Passion needs Reason to remain properly balanced.

ruveyn
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04 Jan 2009, 7:09 pm

slowmutant wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

Decisions on ethics and morality should be arrived at by discussion not determined by supernatural stories that originate from a time of ignorance

Morality is inherent in the way human beings relate to each other. Our needs and inclinations are the basis of morality. Every one of us is a social being. We are nurtured by others for the first three or four years of our lives (and sometimes longer). We learn our first language from others. Science is not the generator of morality. Living in families and communities is.

ruveyn

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05 Jan 2009, 6:05 am

Fidget wrote:

I watched his video titled "Take your God and shove it" and I must say this man is no better than the radical close-minded Christians. So now we have a radical close-minded atheist, that's any better? No. (this is coming from an atheist)

Well said.

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05 Jan 2009, 9:49 am

slowmutant wrote:

For all its versatility, science cannot tell us how we should live our lives. Science knows a lot, but it doesn't know right from wrong. It offers no ethical framework, no moral compass.

Neither does religion. What has religion given us? The pogrom, the Crusades, jihad and martyrdom.

ruveyn

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