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Myrtonos
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27 Jan 2014, 9:00 pm

Is it true that many of those on the autistic spectrum, particularly aspie supremists, may be suffering from megalomania of some description? Suppose you may be suffering autistic megalomania if:

1. You believe that you are medically normal and convinced that you are fine the way they are, yet can't figure out why people don't want you around or why people think they could be better at being polite or considerate of others.
2. You know you are acting in good faith yet assume most other people who don't want you around and/or think you have the problem mentioned above are acting in bad faith.
3. You believe it is necessary to keep going on and on about what others say are your special interrests.
4. You state as fact what others say are your opinions.
5. You believe you are a special expert in your special interrest(s) and, for instance, have a special authority to dictate how encyclopedia articles on them should read.
6. You threaten to stop contacting people if they don't let you get your way, yet you practically stalk them, such as by responding on their behalf, and/or continuing to quote and rephrase them.
7. You accuse those trying to help you of conspiring against you.
8. You believe you are a lateral thinkner, yet have a reputation for impractical thinking.
9. Upon reading this list, you belive that many people who may fuction more normally than you yet appear to have similar symptoms are megalomaniacs.

By the way, medically normal in this case is defined by how normally one fuctions in society, as this does vary within the autistic community.



Last edited by Myrtonos on 28 Jan 2014, 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Willard
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27 Jan 2014, 9:08 pm

What are you, eight?



DarkRain
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27 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm

Willard wrote:
What are you, eight?


This! :)



JSBACHlover
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27 Jan 2014, 9:19 pm

To answer your question: No.



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27 Jan 2014, 9:33 pm

DarkRain wrote:
Willard wrote:
What are you, eight?


This! :)


Hah hah....thinking OP was no. 8. But yes, indeed. Geez :roll:

Anyhoo, to succinctly answer the Q: No.


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pensieve
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27 Jan 2014, 11:23 pm

I'm thinking an aspie broke this person's heart a long time ago.


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Feralucce
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09 Feb 2014, 1:35 pm

Quote:
1. You believe that you are medically normal and convinced that you are fine the way they are, yet can't figure out why people don't want you around or why people think they could be better at being polite or considerate of others.

Since no one, at this point, knows what causes autistic spectrum disorders, stating that we are not medically normal is premature. Further, Asperger's is in the DSM... which is a manual for MENTAL health conditions, not medical.

Quote:
2. You know you are acting in good faith yet assume most other people who don't want you around and/or think you have the problem mentioned above are acting in bad faith.

Guess what? Our experiences play this out. You may be an exception, but most NTs find Aspies creepy, annoying or odd, and do not know how to handle it. Micro expressions reveal a revulsion at times (as do words). This point, however, contradicts megalomania... Megalomaniacs will not realize that most people do not like them.

Quote:
3. You believe it is necessary to keep going on and on about what others say are your special interrests.

This point is wrong... You believe that it is something we can control or help. Special interests are part of Autistic Spectrum Disorders... Obsessive behaviors and interests... I recommend you read this (LINK

Quote:
4. You state as fact what others say are your opinions.

Ironically enough... NTs do the same thing. When confronted with documented facts, Aspies will most often either respond with contrary documentation or take it under advisement, research and revise their opinions. NTs, on the other hand, will stick by their guns for an extended period.

Quote:
5. You believe you are a special expert in your special interrest(s) and, for instance, have a special authority to dictate how encyclopedia articles on them should read.

And you assume that we aren't. You have no frame of reference for what it is like to have obsessive interests... For the record, talk to the person you are railing against then fact check them... You will be surprised at how accurate your friend is.

Quote:
6. You threaten to stop contacting people if they don't let you get your way, yet you practically stalk them, such as by responding on their behalf, and/or continuing to quote and rephrase them.

This... is not an autistic specrtum behavior. So, please revise your opinion. BUT... if it was important enough to threaten that action, chances are, you were not paying attention or did not care enough to make accommodations.

Quote:
7. You accuse those trying to help you of conspiring against you.

By posting this, seeking agreement... you are doing just that.

Quote:
8. You believe you are a lateral thinkner, yet have a reputation for impractical thinking.

Lateral thinking... is, by definition, is impractical thinking...
Lateral thinking is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach, using reasoning that is not immediately obvious and involving ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic. The term was coined in 1967 by Edward de Bono.
According to de Bono, lateral thinking deliberately distances itself from standard perceptions of creativity as either "vertical" logic (the classic method for problem solving: working out the solution step-by-step from the given data) or "horizontal" imagination (having a thousand ideas but being unconcerned with the detailed implementation of them).

Quote:
9. Upon reading this list, you belive that many people who may fuction more normally than you yet appear to have similar symptoms are megalomaniacs.

Thus far, you have listed nothing that is a symptom of megalomania.

Quote:
By the way, medically normal in this case is defined by how normally one fuctions in society, as this does vary within the autistic community.

Again... this is not a medical issue... asd and megalomania are both mental, not medical conditions... As is being an asshat...


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JSBACHlover
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09 Feb 2014, 3:04 pm

Look, it's almost impossible for an Aspie to be megalomaniacal. We are obsessed with particular topics and can go on endlessly about them, yes. But megalomania entails the obsessive desire to impose our own obsessions upon others using cunning and manipulation, which is characteristic of narcissism. Yet Aspies lack the skills of the narcissist, and we are not manipulators.

Therefore It is almost impossible to find Asperger's and excessive narcissism in the same person. In fact, one check for Asperger's is the MMPI's "false positive" reading of narcissism. Hence, no megalomania.



Myrtonos
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09 Feb 2014, 3:51 pm

Feralucce wrote:
Since no one, at this point, knows what causes autistic spectrum disorders, stating that we are not medically normal is premature. Further, Asperger's is in the DSM... which is a manual for MENTAL health conditions, not medical.


I did not state that even most of you are not medically normal. Medically/mentaly normal in this case is defined by how normally one fuctions in society. Many people with ASD go though school normally, and many others need mentors to acheive social success.

Quote:
Guess what? Our experiences play this out. You may be an exception, but most NTs find Aspies creepy, annoying or odd, and do not know how to handle it. Micro expressions reveal a revulsion at times (as do words). This point, however, contradicts megalomania... Megalomaniacs will not realize that most people do not like them.


Do you really believe that most NTs are acting in bad faith? Just because someone finds your behaviour creepy, annoying or odd, doesn't mean they are a bad person. And when I was on YouTube, I wraped my head around the fact that just becasue someone is odd themselves doesn't mean they know how to handle it in others. I've actually been blocked by a well known aspie female vlogger who didn't know how to handle me, she even said I acted as if I own her channel. Another pretty female, also with AS, got fed up about my comments, both on her YouTube channel and her formspring.

Quote:
This point is wrong... You believe that it is something we can control or help. Special interests are part of Autistic Spectrum Disorders... Obsessive behaviors and interests...


Why can't you help it? Yes, special interrests are part of ASD, but one with such interrests may or may not believe that it is necessary to go on and on about them. You might not believe it is necessary, however I can see how one might have such a belief.

Quote:
Ironically enough... NTs do the same thing. When confronted with documented facts, Aspies will most often either respond with contrary documentation or take it under advisement, research and revise their opinions. NTs, on the other hand, will stick by their guns for an extended period.


In a nutshell, this is bigotory against neurotyicals, even I associate the term with an apparent lack of critical thinking ability, however I have known non-auistic peolpe who do demonstrate critical thinking. In my experience, aspies are on average more opininonated than the general population.

Quote:
And you assume that we aren't. You have no frame of reference for what it is like to have obsessive interests... For the record, talk to the person you are railing against then fact check them... You will be surprised at how accurate your friend is.


No, I assume nothing at all, I do have obsessive interrests, just because you tend to talk too much and stick to one topic doesn't mean you are a special expert on it. And in my experience they can lead to impractical thinking, most practically minded people do not have obsessive interrests. These are the sort of people who typically work in industries and deal with industry costings every workday. I even come across such people on railfan forums.

Quote:
This... is not an autistic specrtum behavior. So, please revise your opinion. BUT... if it was important enough to threaten that action, chances are, you were not paying attention or did not care enough to make accommodations.


The threats I mentioned might not be general autistic spectrum behaviour, but it's not normal behaviour either. One who does this sort of thing is likely to have a lot of difficulty understanding how one's actions make other people feel, itself a common autistic difficulty.

Quote:
Lateral thinking... is, by definition, is impractical thinking...
Lateral thinking is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach, using reasoning that is not immediately obvious and involving ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic. The term was coined in 1967 by Edward de Bono.
According to de Bono, lateral thinking deliberately distances itself from standard perceptions of creativity as either "vertical" logic (the classic method for problem solving: working out the solution step-by-step from the given data) or "horizontal" imagination (having a thousand ideas but being unconcerned with the detailed implementation of them).


Lateral thinking is actually the crossing of practical thinking with imagination. Otherwise you might suggest that the Cinicinatti subway, if ever built, should be the same gauge and the San Francisco BART, that's an example of impractical thinking.

Quote:
Thus far, you have listed nothing that is a symptom of megalomania.


Please work in good faith, I listed plenty of what might be symptoms of megalomania as it manifests itself in autistic people.

Quote:
Again... this is not a medical issue... asd and megalomania are both mental, not medical conditions... As is being an asshat...


Yes, they are medical, how is that different from medical conditions, I thought mental conditions were in the medical category.

JSBACHlover wrote:
Look, it's almost impossible for an Aspie to be megalomaniacal. We are obsessed with particular topics and can go on endlessly about them, yes. But megalomania entails the obsessive desire to impose our own obsessions upon others using cunning and manipulation, which is characteristic of narcissism. Yet Aspies lack the skills of the narcissist, and we are not manipulators.


Aspies come in many different kinds, if you and I can be obsessed with particular topics and go on endlessly about them, then believing that it is necessary to go on and on about them would be the megalomanical verison of that classic aspie symptom.



Last edited by Myrtonos on 10 Feb 2014, 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

Feralucce
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09 Feb 2014, 5:31 pm

Myrtonos wrote:
Feralucce wrote:
Since no one, at this point, knows what causes autistic spectrum disorders, stating that we are not medically normal is premature. Further, Asperger's is in the DSM... which is a manual for MENTAL health conditions, not medical.


I did not state that even most of you are not medically normal. Medically/mentaly normal in this case is defined by how normally one fuctions in society. Many people with ASD go though school normally, and many other needs mentors to acheive social success.

Quote:
Guess what? Our experiences play this out. You may be an exception, but most NTs find Aspies creepy, annoying or odd, and do not know how to handle it. Micro expressions reveal a revulsion at times (as do words). This point, however, contradicts megalomania... Megalomaniacs will not realize that most people do not like them.


Do you really believe that most NTs are acting in bad faith? Just because someone finds your behaviour creepy, annoying or odd, doesn't mean they are a bad person. And when I was on YouTube, I wraped my head around the fact that just becasue someone is odd themselves doesn't mean they know how to handle it in others. I've actually been blocked by a well known aspie female vlogger who didn't know how to handle me, she even said I acted as if I own her channel. Another pretty female, also with AS, got fed up about my comments, both on her YouTube channel and her formspring.

Quote:
This point is wrong... You believe that it is something we can control or help. Special interests are part of Autistic Spectrum Disorders... Obsessive behaviors and interests...


Why can't you help it? Yes, special interrests are part of ASD, but one with such interrests may or may not believe that it is necessary to go on and on about them. You might not believe it is necessary, however I can see how one might have such a belief.

Quote:
Ironically enough... NTs do the same thing. When confronted with documented facts, Aspies will most often either respond with contrary documentation or take it under advisement, research and revise their opinions. NTs, on the other hand, will stick by their guns for an extended period.


In a nutshell, this is bigotory against neurotyicals, even I associate the term with an apparent lack of critical thinking ability, however I have known non-auistic peolpe to do the same. In my experience, aspies are on average more opininonated than the general population.

Quote:
And you assume that we aren't. You have no frame of reference for what it is like to have obsessive interests... For the record, talk to the person you are railing against then fact check them... You will be surprised at how accurate your friend is.


No, I assume nothing at all, I do have obsessive interrests, just because you tend to talk too much and stick to one topic doesn't mean you are a special expert on it. And in my experience they can lead to impractical thinking, most practically minded people do not have obsessive interrests. These are the sort of people who typically work in industries and deal with industry costings every workday. I even come across such people on railfan forums.

Quote:
This... is not an autistic specrtum behavior. So, please revise your opinion. BUT... if it was important enough to threaten that action, chances are, you were not paying attention or did not care enough to make accommodations.


The threats I mentioned might not be general autistic spectrum behaviour, but it's not normal behaviour either. One who does this sort of thing is likely to have a lot of difficulty understanding how one's actions make other people feel, itself a common autistic difficulty.

Quote:
Lateral thinking... is, by definition, is impractical thinking...
Lateral thinking is solving problems through an indirect and creative approach, using reasoning that is not immediately obvious and involving ideas that may not be obtainable by using only traditional step-by-step logic. The term was coined in 1967 by Edward de Bono.
According to de Bono, lateral thinking deliberately distances itself from standard perceptions of creativity as either "vertical" logic (the classic method for problem solving: working out the solution step-by-step from the given data) or "horizontal" imagination (having a thousand ideas but being unconcerned with the detailed implementation of them).


Lateral thinking is actually the crossing of practical thinking with imagination. Otherwise you might suggest that the Cinicinatti subway, if ever built, should be the same gauge and the San Francisco BART, that's an example of impractical thinking.

Quote:
Thus far, you have listed nothing that is a symptom of megalomania.


Please work in good faith, I listed plenty of what might be symptoms of megalomania as it manifests itself in autistic people.

Quote:
Again... this is not a medical issue... asd and megalomania are both mental, not medical conditions... As is being an asshat...


Yes, they are medical, how is that different from medical conditions, I thought mental conditions were in the medical category.

JSBACHlover wrote:
Look, it's almost impossible for an Aspie to be megalomaniacal. We are obsessed with particular topics and can go on endlessly about them, yes. But megalomania entails the obsessive desire to impose our own obsessions upon others using cunning and manipulation, which is characteristic of narcissism. Yet Aspies lack the skills of the narcissist, and we are not manipulators.


Aspies come in many different kinds, if you and I can be obsessed with particular topics and go on endlessly about them, then believing that it is necessary to go on and on about them would be the megalomanical verison of that classic aspie symptom.


Since you are so certain that it is medical... please take your proof to the nearest research center and present it so that we can get on our way to effective non-skill treatments... Especially since you seem to no more than the current medical establishment...

Your insistence that this is megalomania without there being anything similar to megalomania in your description is... odd. I can only assume that you are giving a new definition to megalomania...

HOWEVER... I would like to point out the irony of your insistence of talking, ad infinitum/ad nauseum about this while complaining about another doing it.

>>>END OF LINE<<<


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Raziel
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09 Feb 2014, 6:55 pm

Myrtonos wrote:
1. You believe that you are medically normal and convinced that you are fine the way they are, yet can't figure out why people don't want you around or why people think they could be better at being polite or considerate of others.


I thought this as a child, but not anymore. No I think I'm strange, but as a child I didn't even know that I was different.

Myrtonos wrote:
2. You know you are acting in good faith yet assume most other people who don't want you around and/or think you have the problem mentioned above are acting in bad faith.


No, I think everyone is different and likes and dislikes ppl out of different kind of reasons and you don't have to like everyone and also not everyone has to like you.

Myrtonos wrote:
3. You believe it is necessary to keep going on and on about what others say are your special interrests.
4. You state as fact what others say are your opinions.


No, I don't need to tell my stuff that interests me everyone else. I actually rather keep certain things to myself, but there are ppl I talk to about it, but they are fine with it.

Myrtonos wrote:
5. You believe you are a special expert in your special interrest(s) and, for instance, have a special authority to dictate how encyclopedia articles on them should read.


No, I dislike authority. I like to be for myself and usually don't tell others how to do anything. There are just very very few things were I insist.

Myrtonos wrote:
6. You threaten to stop contacting people if they don't let you get your way, yet you practically stalk them, such as by responding on their behalf, and/or continuing to quote and rephrase them.


No, if I don't wanna talk to ppl I don't. I usually don't threaten anything.

Myrtonos wrote:
7. You accuse those trying to help you of conspiring against you.


The only situation were I freaked and insisted was actually in the psychiatry when psychiatrists wanted to tell me how to behave, why they think I feel a certain way and so on. I like to be independent and want, no I NEED to have my own freedom. The propably wanted to "help" me, but I want to devide for my own what to do with my life. I never behaved that way, exept for this exeption. Just very few situations can make me paranoid, but then they make me REALLY paranoid, for a very long time. I can't let it go easily.

Myrtonos wrote:
8. You believe you are a lateral thinkner, yet have a reputation for impractical thinking.


English is my second language, I dunno what that means.

Myrtonos wrote:
9. Upon reading this list, you belive that many people who may fuction more normally than you yet appear to have similar symptoms are megalomaniacs.


I actually don't care that much how others think how are not close to me and I'm not even sure what "megalomaniac" means.


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Myrtonos
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09 Feb 2014, 9:31 pm

It may be true that you don't have to like everyone, and not everyone has to like you, but just becasue someone dislikes you doesn't mean they are a bad person.

Quote:
The only situation were I freaked and insisted was actually in the psychiatry when psychiatrists wanted to tell me how to behave, why they think I feel a certain way and so on. I like to be independent and want, no I NEED to have my own freedom. The propably wanted to "help" me, but I want to devide for my own what to do with my life. I never behaved that way, exept for this exeption. Just very few situations can make me paranoid, but then they make me REALLY paranoid, for a very long time. I can't let it go easily.


Yes, that suggests, that you had a lot of difficulty at that time, understanding how your actions made other people feel, but didn't believe it. Have any posters on this forum tried to "help" you?

True or false? If a person simply responds with something like "response not necessary, this dead horse has been lashed enough" rather than a longer and more detailed response, they are likely to be annoyed.
True or false? If a person only responds to comments other than yours, they are likely to be annoyed with you and trying to ingore you.
True or false? If a person doesn't respond to a topic you bring up, they aren't interrested in that topic, even if you believe it is necessary for the other person to learn more about it.

Quote:
if I don't wanna talk to ppl I don't. I usually don't threaten anything.


Good, what I wrote is not to deny that many of those with ASD do this, but those threats are a sign of megalomania.

I'm not good with explaining word meanings, I hoped that list above would give you all an idea.



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28 Feb 2014, 8:09 pm

JSBACHlover wrote:
Look, it's almost impossible for an Aspie to be megalomaniacal. We are obsessed with particular topics and can go on endlessly about them, yes. But megalomania entails the obsessive desire to impose our own obsessions upon others using cunning and manipulation, which is characteristic of narcissism. Yet Aspies lack the skills of the narcissist, and we are not manipulators.

Therefore It is almost impossible to find Asperger's and excessive narcissism in the same person. In fact, one check for Asperger's is the MMPI's "false positive" reading of narcissism. Hence, no megalomania.
Hmm, I find that I want to impose my desires on others but often lack the skills to do so. I still want to, regardless. I am an extreme "control freak" this way. I also have extremely high self-esteem. I can see how some people might see me as narcissistic. I am realistic about my shortcomings, but my natural tendency is to be very optimistic and to act like I can do anything.

This narcissism thing has really intrigued me. I certainly have traits of it.


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Myrtonos
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28 Feb 2014, 9:48 pm

MathGirl wrote:
Hmm, I find that I want to impose my desires on others but often lack the skills to do so. I still want to, regardless. I am an extreme "control freak" this way. I also have extremely high self-esteem. I can see how some people might see me as narcissistic. I am realistic about my shortcomings, but my natural tendency is to be very optimistic and to act like I can do anything.

This narcissism thing has really intrigued me. I certainly have traits of it.


Wanting to impose your desire on others is a sign of megalomania, and this is what a mentor told me not to do, via email, that's part of what made me think it might be a symptom of megalomania. And this thread is largely based on that. Because one has one or two of the symptoms mentioned above doesn't mean one suffers from megalomania, but if one has a considrable portion of them, it is difficult not to conclude they do suffer from megalomania.



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01 Mar 2014, 10:15 pm

I am not good with following a lot of this, what exactly is the point of this? I am reading everyones responses and I am really lost. What are you trying to gain from posting this?