They say that if you're against abortion you hate women and

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NewTime
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14 Apr 2016, 3:08 pm

They say that if you're against abortion you hate women and if you support abortion you hate babies.



Yigeren
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14 Apr 2016, 3:11 pm

Ok. What's the point? :scratch:

If you want to know what I think, I think that neither of those things is true.



nurseangela
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14 Apr 2016, 3:13 pm

Just have your own beliefs and don't listen to "They".


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14 Apr 2016, 3:32 pm

I'm sure there are some people who fit those categories - people who hate women who are against abortion, and people who hate babies who are fine with abortions. But that doesn't hold true for everyone. I am against abortion, and I don't hate women (including myself, as I am a woman). I have friends who have had abortions, and they don't hate babies. People who say those things are simply trying to corner you into their camp, at the same time, they are too scared or impatient to take a more careful look at the complexities, so instead they paint the world with very broad and brash brush strokes and try to shove everyone into their own inaccurate pre-fabricated categories.



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15 Apr 2016, 10:46 am

They. Don't you just hate They? :wink:



Sweetleaf
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15 Apr 2016, 10:57 am

I say it's a personal choice, if one doesn't want one/doesn't support it than they don't have to get one, but that shouldn't be imposed on anyone.


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marcb0t
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15 Apr 2016, 10:58 am

I love women. One of my best friends is a woman.

However, I hate abortion. I love women too much to not let them know my disapproval for killing a life before it has the chance to see the world.

Some people make it into a woman's rights issue while finding ways to disregard the human rights of the baby.


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Sweetleaf
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15 Apr 2016, 11:08 am

marcb0t wrote:
I love women. One of my best friends is a woman.

However, I hate abortion. I love women too much to not let them know my disapproval for killing a life before it has the chance to see the world.

Some people make it into a woman's rights issue while finding ways to disregard the human rights of the baby.


Most abortions take place before the 'baby' is even a fetus....of course the mesh of cells and tissue is alive, but its not really a person with thoughts, feelings, emotions, developed senses and all that. Either way I know if contraception failed I would not go through with a pregnancy as I doubt I could take care of and raise a child, I also don't want to, not to mention i doubt I could afford/handle a pregnancy.

If it was 'babies' being aborted I could see it being a human rights issue....but abortions occur before the embryo/fetus develops into a baby, at that point a chimpanzee is closer to a person than that mass of cell.s But as it stands late term abortions are only for medical emergencies not standard practice....standard practice is getting the abortion as early as possible before much developing happens. I mean what, would you have women forced to undergo the pregnancy and have a baby against their will?


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marcb0t
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15 Apr 2016, 1:33 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Most abortions take place before the 'baby' is even a fetus....of course the mesh of cells and tissue is alive, but its not really a person with thoughts, feelings, emotions, developed senses and all that. Either way I know if contraception failed I would not go through with a pregnancy as I doubt I could take care of and raise a child, I also don't want to, not to mention i doubt I could afford/handle a pregnancy.

If it was 'babies' being aborted I could see it being a human rights issue....but abortions occur before the embryo/fetus develops into a baby, at that point a chimpanzee is closer to a person than that mass of cell.s But as it stands late term abortions are only for medical emergencies not standard practice....standard practice is getting the abortion as early as possible before much developing happens. I mean what, would you have women forced to undergo the pregnancy and have a baby against their will?

I disagree with this stance, especially since the baby and mother do not share the same blood. It is its own separate set of cells, and the mother is natural life support.

However, for the purpose of this thread, I will not pursue any more argument on the topic. There is already another thread on this forum with much engaging dialogue on the subject matter... which you probably have already read through.


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15 Apr 2016, 4:54 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I say it's a personal choice, if one doesn't want one/doesn't support it than they don't have to get one, but that shouldn't be imposed on anyone.

Unfortunately, we have the right wing religious types that want to control women's bodies...



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15 Apr 2016, 5:32 pm

No, I believe most people that support abortion is simply ignorant of something that is out of sight and out of mind, in this case that is 50+ million aborted children since 1972. They get emotionally manipulated by extremists who's main argument usually amounts to how impractical and the problems with possible scenarios where there should be exceptions, few and far in between as most abortions are done for no reason other than the mother did not want the child at that time but this is not as emotionally manipulating as picturing some poor teenager being forced carry her rapist's baby or some back alley abortion preformed by a drifter with a coat hanger. It's nonsense, losing the bigger picture purposely. I am not religious experience, I don't even really believe in god but I do have morals and I don't think protecting life is forcing my morals onto other people any more than protecting any life.

People depersonalize abortion like people depersonalize war and the untold death and destruction it brings, with me I ask why did this happen? Did this need to happen? Also like war, I think the golden rule can be applied here as well as nobody would want their own humanity stripped away and I don't think most people would want to be aborted or people like them to be aborted. Makes sense to me, especially as someone on the spectrum. That's why those mandatory ultrasounds are great, it makes it real and abundantly clear what this procedure is all about. Is opposing war forcing my morals on other people? I see it as the opposite as I wasn't the one initiating force.

It is a personal choice to have unprotected sex and get pregnant, the implications(and I guess you can say can say consequences) of this conscious decision is that if a life is created then you should be responsible for your child. A man is forced by law to take care of his children whether he wants the kid or not but the law facilitates mothers killing their children and the man has no say in it a all either way. I don't think responsibility is a bad thing, I believe in equality and think we should all value life a lot more than me do on all levels. It's a human rights issue, gender has nothing to do with it. Abortion has and continues to be a tool of gender selection in cultures that more value male children, how many Chinese and Indian girls have been murdered only because they were a girl?



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15 Apr 2016, 6:20 pm

Again, it can't be murder if it's not a person. And what right does a man have? Are you one of those men who simply want to control the woman's body as that is what you suggest when you say a man has no choice???



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15 Apr 2016, 9:11 pm

Yigeren wrote:
Ok. What's the point? :scratch:

If you want to know what I think, I think that neither of those things is true.


People want things simple. "Everyone who thinks A also thinks B and C" is simpler than "everyone is an individual with their own, possibly unique views and doesn't have to conform to any stereotype in the small repertory I can be assed to anticipate". Convenience trumps truth seeking, so the former prevails, q.e.d.


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15 Apr 2016, 10:12 pm

Many of 'them' can't stand each other. Little surprise there.


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