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MSBKyle
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13 Jun 2017, 7:57 pm

I am not here to persuade anyone to have kids or not to have kids. I am not judging anyone either. Everyone is free to make whatever decisions they want, but I just want to hear others' take on why they want to have kids. Let me say that I never want to have kids. First of all, I don't think I will ever be in a financial position to have any. Even if I am, I still wouldn't want any. Secondly, I never had a say in being born so I don't want to force life onto anyone else. Thirdly, I don't think I will ever fully mature enough to have kids. In order to have kids, you have to be very responsible and mature. I don't believe I ever will be. Having kids can cause a lot of stress and drain you financially. Your life revolves around that child, especially when they are really young. You can't work or leave your house unless you find a babysitter. I understand that babies and little kids are cute, but unfortunately, they are not that young for very long. They eventually grow up and are forced to go to school, get a job, and contribute to society. What I think more people should do is adopt. There are millions of hungry and homeless children out there who would love to be cared for by a loving family. By creating children of your own, you are using up resources and depriving a child who already exists a family. We should help children who already exist instead of creating more children to suffer.



Lintar
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13 Jun 2017, 9:53 pm

A really good question. I can't understand it either, and, like you, I have the same reasons for not wanting them.



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13 Jun 2017, 9:59 pm

I have to agree for the most part. I really don't agree with the maturity part, as it's a very mature decision to not have kids for the reasons you listed.

I don't want kids.



EzraS
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14 Jun 2017, 1:20 am

I like the idea of adoption in that you're helping someone out. And in old age might have the adult to look after you, which would make it mutually beneficial.



shlaifu
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14 Jun 2017, 9:33 am

I think kids are something to do for married couples.
It keeps them from worrying about other things, and creates a default answer for a lot of questions: "whatever is best for the child." - a child, in general, also gives a sense of purpose that way.
It makes people stop question things. I think that's what they call "growing up"- and why there's a man-made environmental catastrophe waiting.

I mean, obv. It's a genetic imperative and societies are built around their procreation so, to not want kids means something went seriously wrong with someone's introduction into the symbolic order...


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kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2017, 9:45 am

People want kids because they want to "keep the family moving," so to speak. Continue the bloodline.

Most of the time, though, there is a need on the part of people to raise kids, and to watch them grow.

I feel that way, too....but the desire was never great enough for me to actually act on it.



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14 Jun 2017, 9:25 pm

Well...I admit my reasons are entirely selfish and I'll never go back on that. Yes, I DO love my kids and will do all I can for them.

But my main reason is simple: To leave a legacy in hopes that it will positively impact the world, or at least some part of it. Nothing I've ever done has mattered much to anyone, and each year around May 2 it becomes increasingly apparent that I likely won't make any significant difference to anyone, or most anyone at best. The instant they cover me up with dirt, which I'm sure they'll take no small pleasure in, I'll be quickly forgotten. AT LEAST I can pass on my thoughts, ideas, and values while my children are still very young in hopes of them succeeding where I failed and standing on my shoulders where I've done well. Maybe, just MAYBE they can do for their own children what I never could for them.

MAYBE I can still do something important from beyond the grave through what I leave behind. Or not. Perhaps my own children will just forget me, too. But for as long as I HAVE them, there's at least a chance. Where there's that, there's still hope. So MAYBE I can find one more day that's worth staying alive.



StinkyDog
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21 Jun 2017, 10:08 pm

One reason for producing children is to have someone to get your stuff when you die.

But, here is Sandman's take on the subject



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suXZgKrR3aY



adifferentname
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22 Jun 2017, 3:21 am

Regress the argument a little.

The question should be "Why do people want to have sex?".



AngelRho
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22 Jun 2017, 6:04 am

adifferentname wrote:
Regress the argument a little.

The question should be "Why do people want to have sex?".

No-brainer here. Because it feels freekin AWESOME!

What fascinates me most about the topic of sex is how I see so many bring it up with either a sense of entitlement to it or feelings of frustration for not getting it. Sex is the ultimate means by which people derive feelings of importance, thus it is human selfishness that primarily motivates people to have sex.

Everyone wants to abuse you. Everyone wants to be abused.

...and, well, it feels good, too. Masturbation is functionally no different in that regard. But physically connecting with someone, the senses that are stimulated, the mutual engagement, and the feeling of manipulating another person into climaxing while satisfying yourself--those perceived needs of what you can do to someone and make them to for you are really all it's about. You might sprinkle some genuine love or affection for someone in there. Or you might actually care for your partner. For me, going solo is kinda like waking up with a hangover. I'm not saying it's necessarily morally wrong. But it doesn't feel right. Kinda like drinking entirely too much and waking up with a hangover. Sex with a partner has a completeness to it I can't get on my own.



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23 Jun 2017, 2:47 am

AngelRho wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Regress the argument a little.

The question should be "Why do people want to have sex?".

No-brainer here. Because it feels freekin AWESOME!

What fascinates me most about the topic of sex is how I see so many bring it up with either a sense of entitlement to it or feelings of frustration for not getting it. Sex is the ultimate means by which people derive feelings of importance, thus it is human selfishness that primarily motivates people to have sex.

Everyone wants to abuse you. Everyone wants to be abused.


Captured the cynicism of Sweet Dreams nicely there.

Quote:
...and, well, it feels good, too. Masturbation is functionally no different in that regard. But physically connecting with someone, the senses that are stimulated, the mutual engagement, and the feeling of manipulating another person into climaxing while satisfying yourself--those perceived needs of what you can do to someone and make them to for you are really all it's about. You might sprinkle some genuine love or affection for someone in there. Or you might actually care for your partner. For me, going solo is kinda like waking up with a hangover. I'm not saying it's necessarily morally wrong. But it doesn't feel right. Kinda like drinking entirely too much and waking up with a hangover. Sex with a partner has a completeness to it I can't get on my own.


I actually meant it should be taken back to bare basics. Why does sex feel good?



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24 Jun 2017, 4:38 pm

I've never understood this either, especially when people don't have the money or the right qualities to raise a child. People in my country generally don't have a sense of responsibility and have children because they think babies are cute to play with and having more children will make us a stronger nation :lol: (yes i believe they seriously think like that) People who have children without preparing themselves for the responsibility of it are the people i hate the most and i feel sorry for their children..



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24 Jun 2017, 5:26 pm

adifferentname wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Regress the argument a little.

The question should be "Why do people want to have sex?".

No-brainer here. Because it feels freekin AWESOME!

What fascinates me most about the topic of sex is how I see so many bring it up with either a sense of entitlement to it or feelings of frustration for not getting it. Sex is the ultimate means by which people derive feelings of importance, thus it is human selfishness that primarily motivates people to have sex.

Everyone wants to abuse you. Everyone wants to be abused.


Captured the cynicism of Sweet Dreams nicely there.

Quote:
...and, well, it feels good, too. Masturbation is functionally no different in that regard. But physically connecting with someone, the senses that are stimulated, the mutual engagement, and the feeling of manipulating another person into climaxing while satisfying yourself--those perceived needs of what you can do to someone and make them to for you are really all it's about. You might sprinkle some genuine love or affection for someone in there. Or you might actually care for your partner. For me, going solo is kinda like waking up with a hangover. I'm not saying it's necessarily morally wrong. But it doesn't feel right. Kinda like drinking entirely too much and waking up with a hangover. Sex with a partner has a completeness to it I can't get on my own.


I actually meant it should be taken back to bare basics. Why does sex feel good?

It's the way we're made. Self-stimulation isn't the sensory experience of sex with a partner. I mean, bare basics? You're talking about physiological processes leading up to chemicals being released that have contrasting effects on men and women. The problem with the bare basics is the bare basics don't sufficiently answer your question. It's more complicated than that.

I think a lot of it is more psychological. Partner sex is more rewarding than going solo. Someone with more neurology than I have might be able to point to an area of the brain responsible for "reward" response.

But I lean more in the psych direction because it's what I know. A basic human need is reproduction, which sex satisfies. However, humans don't have pronounced estrus cycles like other mammals, leading to most sex being purely for pleasure rather than a survival instinct. It's also not logically necessary that sex-for-reproduction be pleasurable (some religious sects even taught that any pleasurable sex was a sin and that the female orgasm should be repressed). So...once again, the question is complicated.

There's no simple answer here. I tend to include spiritual answers, so as simple as I can answer is God intended human beings to WANT to reproduce (as per a few Biblical references I can provide on request) BUT also intended men and women to enjoy each other without reproduction being a necessary end to the sex act. Not helpful if you want a non-religious answer, but that's as bare basic as it gets.



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24 Jun 2017, 6:16 pm

AprilR wrote:
I've never understood this either, especially when people don't have the money or the right qualities to raise a child. People in my country generally don't have a sense of responsibility and have children because they think babies are cute to play with and having more children will make us a stronger nation :lol: (yes i believe they seriously think like that) People who have children without preparing themselves for the responsibility of it are the people i hate the most and i feel sorry for their children..

Heheh...you might feel sorry for my kids, then.

If you set fixed parameters for having kids, such as age, career status, social status, economic status, you'll never have kids. You really won't. Nobody would. Because none of those expectations are even realistic.

In our case, we were making close to $40k when we got married, and I could reasonably expect a raise every year. Student loans were being EXCEEDED every month, mortgage was getting paid, car note getting paid. Everything was awesome.

So... Let's have a baby. Why not? We got this. We had our first baby. Ok, so we had to work out hospital bills, but we're OK. Then we found out #2 was on the way. Ok...we can do this. Things will be tight, but it will be fine. Then I got fired. Ok...things will be REALLY tight but I'll start teaching piano lessons and we'll somehow make ends meet. Then SHE got fired for having a baby. Yes, they CAN do that. Then the social workers started snooping around after a "friend" lost her $h¡+ and called the hotline. And then my wife and kids were escorted off church campus by a "concerned children's pastor." And funny thing about banks, they like getting loan payments... So within 5 months we were homeless and doing our best with what little we had left to salvage.

We have come a long way. It's not great, but it is an existence and so far our kids understand and don't really care. We are happy. We manage to scrounge up enough to keep the kids in a good private school, buy food staples in bulk, and keep cost of living trimmed down to the bone (we live mortgage-/rent-/car note-free for under $30k). We have a lot to work on, but at least there are some things we don't have to fear right now. Oh...and I forgot to mention we had baby #3, she got fired AGAIN for having a baby, had two jobs since that were both MISERABLE, got fired AGAIN after being setup, and now has a totally different job working for awesome people...and by sheer chance the same employer offered me a job after I'd been out of education for a few years, expired license, and all that. I was asked to join a popular local band, got kicked out of that band, am trying to put together TWO bands so I can get some gigs, am writing a lot more music, and am even going to the Y to work on my cardio, swim, and besides that I run 5k every morning I'm able, PLUS training to run 10k three afternoons a week. I'm teaching my kids to play piano.

We waited until the "time was right." Look where it got us! We failed to properly account for risk and made many foolish mistakes. We trusted people we never should trusted. Lesson learned, we moved on. We're doing ok and are always prepared for the worst. All our bills are paid through NEXT YEAR, and we ALMOST have enough saved up to pay tuition in full. I'm finishing up an online college course myself. PAID FOR. Unless you saw where and how we live, you'd never guess we were deep in poverty or had ever been worse off.

Thing is, there are ways to make it work when you have children. Waiting for it to be "right" does not account for risk. But if you're just starting out and you've got a good year behind you, go ahead and start your family. Having children regardless of age forces you to prioritize in ways childless folks won't. You have to be a little more organized. You have to be good at budgeting. I swear sometimes money, when things are really tight, just seems to appear out of thin air. Can't explain it, LOL. But we both seemed to unexpectedly find money SOMEWHERE when we got desperate. Our kids forced us to work more as a team with me adapting my status as "resident bum" to "stay-at-home father." We are much more mature than when we started. We are more optimistic. More hopeful. And I keep thinking, "Dang, why didn't we do this sooner?"

I'm not saying people who are at risk for doing harm to kids should have them, and I'm not trying to delegitimize the idea that kids aren't for everyone or that poor people shouldn't have kids if they feel it would be wrong to do so. But if poor people WANT kids, I see no reason to not let them. Parents think differently than non-parents. It's instinctive. And I think that will usually balance out household deficits when it counts. Kids grow up poor all the time and turn out just fine. What we do is expose our kids to a diverse population, racially, economically, socially. They've hung out with welfare babies and (literally) millionaires alike. And we have candid conversations with our kids. You want to be rich? Do what rich people do. Want to do better than us? These are our mistakes...don't repeat them. The real key is instructing kids so they stand on your shoulders, not in your shadows.

Plus kids are just awesome...



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24 Jun 2017, 6:42 pm

Wow, no lack of empathy or Theory of Mind to be seen here, eh? :roll:

No joy of sharing the mysteries of life or delights of learning, watching a new mind absorb the complexities of the natural world; investing in the legacy of paying oneself forward, in hopes that your progeny will have impacts and influences for the betterment of all that you were never able to have yourself. Not to mention being a mentor and role model for someone who, for a few years at least, will look up to you as the wisest, most knowledgeable and perhaps even the funniest person in the whole world (yes, after that they will be embarrassed to be seen with you, but this, too, shall pass).

Just lots of sad sack grumbling about how "the world is such an awful place, how can anyone bring new life into such a miserable blah, blah, blah, and who can afford the cost of yak, yak, yak..." You do realize, Eeyores, the planet and humanity have been around for a few years now, and on the whole, things have been getting consistently better the entire time?

I mean, crike, I'm as big a proponent of gloom, doom and depression as you'll ever want to meet. I live with the demon Suicide perched on my shoulder, incessantly whispering "Just kill yourself - go ahead, it's never going to get any better for you, just one misery after another - do yourself and everyone who knows you a favor and just end it." And in spite of that cheery companion, I can say honestly and unequivocally my kid is the best thing I've ever done in this life. I may never accomplish anything else worthwhile in my entire miserable existence, but she's smart and creative and industrious and essentially good - and she's functional in ways that I never was capable of. If I were a believer in fate, I'd say it's very likely my only purpose in being born was to bring her into this world. And her kids already show the promise of being just as wonderful. In spite of having come from the gene pool of a loser like me.


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