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ladyelaine
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03 Jan 2018, 12:23 pm

I think there are classes that should be graduation requirements for all high schoolers. Core academics are important, but so are life skills such as budgeting and driving. I think students should have to take a financial education course, drivers Ed, and sex Ed. Trades courses should be available for students that don't want to do the traditional college route. What do you guys think?



ladyelaine
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04 Jan 2018, 6:29 pm

I just wondered what types of classes you guys think would have helped you better prepare for the adult world. I wish I could have had a better driver's Ed program. The one they had was a nine week class where half the time was spent on book work and the other half was spent driving on a really tiny driving course in the back of the school parking lot. I would have liked to actually go out on the road to drive.



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04 Jan 2018, 6:47 pm

Financial, maybe CPR and swimming. I would say yes... But not everyone wants to drive or should. Some parents don't want someone else to teach their children (High School, is still minors) about sex. It maybe religious or just personal. Some high schools offer trade programs (really aren't worth anything in the real world), but most cities and medium size towns have a proper trade school that is cheap, most would go for free via grants. These schools have certifications and usually job placement.



ladyelaine
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04 Jan 2018, 7:01 pm

SH90 wrote:
Financial, maybe CPR and swimming. I would say yes... But not everyone wants to drive or should. Some parents don't want someone else to teach their children (High School, is still minors) about sex. It maybe religious or just personal. Some high schools offer trade programs (really aren't worth anything in the real world), but most cities and medium size towns have a trade school that is cheap, most would go for free via grants.


You make good points, but in my area trades classes have been cut in the high schools and there is a heavy emphasis on the four year college track. We don't have driver's Ed anymore and haven't had it since the year I took it. Kids need to learn how to budget and manage their money.



AceofPens
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04 Jan 2018, 7:33 pm

I don't think that system would work in the States, or at least not on a broad scale. Apart from sex ed, which would definitely face a lot of backlash from parents with religion-based preferences (the South might secede all over again :lol: ), driver's ed is not something that every student needs. People in large cities will more often take public transport, for example, and Americans aren't buying cars very often anymore with the rise of services like Uber and Lift. As for trade courses, there's a reason so many schools are cutting back on it these days. Economists have been saying for a while that, unless we push more young Americans towards higher-level degrees, the US is going to fall behind in the global competition. That's not to say that trades are irrelevant. They are and will continue to be an important part of any economic force, but college education has to become the norm if we're to keep up. Financial education, though, I can get behind.


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ladyelaine
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04 Jan 2018, 7:53 pm

AceofPens wrote:
I don't think that system would work in the States, or at least not on a broad scale. Apart from sex ed, which would definitely face a lot of backlash from parents with religion-based preferences (the South might secede all over again :lol: ), driver's ed is not something that every student needs. People in large cities will more often take public transport, for example, and Americans aren't buying cars very often anymore with the rise of services like Uber and Lift. As for trade courses, there's a reason so many schools are cutting back on it these days. Economists have been saying for a while that, unless we push more young Americans towards higher-level degrees, the US is going to fall behind in the global competition. That's not to say that trades are irrelevant. They are and will continue to be an important part of any economic force, but college education has to become the norm if we're to keep up. Financial education, though, I can get behind.


Not everyone is college material. Many people are better suited for trades and vocational training. There aren't enough jobs to go around for every person that gets a college degree and college degrees would lose their value if everyone had them.



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04 Jan 2018, 8:03 pm

It's all about the $. Public schools don't have enough anymore for extra programs, including required classes like phys ed and arts. Charter schools are run like businesses. Private schools are all different, but only a few can actually afford it. Core classes have standardized tests which make data to make politicians happy, and make money for testing companies (who have the means to lobby). Higher ups in school districts are so far removed from the students, a lot have never actually been teachers, so they don't actually know what is in the best interests of the students. Classes like wood shop are expensive and have too many liability issues for supervisors despite their enormous value to prepare students who do not want college for successful trade careers. :|



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04 Jan 2018, 8:09 pm

starcats wrote:
It's all about the $. Public schools don't have enough anymore for extra programs, including required classes like phys ed and arts. Charter schools are run like businesses. Private schools are all different, but only a few can actually afford it. Core classes have standardized tests which make data to make politicians happy, and make money for testing companies (who have the means to lobby). Higher ups in school districts are so far removed from the students, a lot have never actually been teachers, so they don't actually know what is in the best interests of the students. Classes like wood shop are expensive and have too many liability issues for supervisors despite their enormous value to prepare students who do not want college for successful trade careers. :|


It sucks that schools are like that. School board members and admin are paid way too much. Some of that money could go towards funding vocational programs.



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04 Jan 2018, 8:28 pm

Elaine has the right idea. Not everyone belongs in college. Trades are important. Anyone ever call a history teacher to fix your plumbing or car?

Beef up the college prep classes for those with the aptitude. Have vocations for the hands on person. Does this cost money? It costs more to not do it.

Put that in y'all's pipe and smoke it.



ladyelaine
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04 Jan 2018, 8:31 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
Elaine has the right idea. Not everyone belongs in college. Trades are important. Anyone ever call a history teacher to fix your plumbing or car?

Beef up the college prep classes for those with the aptitude. Have vocations for the hands on person. Does this cost money? It costs more to not do it.

Put that in y'all's pipe and smoke it.


This is what I'm getting at. Have different graduation tracks for students pursuing trades and students going to four year colleges.



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04 Jan 2018, 9:09 pm

I guess that's too hard for some people to get.....lol



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04 Jan 2018, 9:40 pm

Exactly. There are a lot of well paid, well respected trade positions that are a much better fit for a lot of people, but the data factor has schools pushing everyone into college. Then these people who could be set in a career instead have to continue struggling academically and often end up dropping out or don't learn anything that will lead to the right career for them.



starcats
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04 Jan 2018, 9:51 pm

ladyelaine wrote:
This is what I'm getting at. Have different graduation tracks for students pursuing trades and students going to four year colleges.


It depends where you live, bigger school districts have this. I remember this in my tiny school district growing up, and no big deal. Now with the emphasis on testing, there is a major stigma from school boards, principals, teachers, and even students to have a trade diploma because it's thought of as lower, not different. Teacher's are evaluated on moving students to "higher level thinking," even though there is no actual way to authentically assess what that is for individuals. I can think of a lot of ways to do that for a student on a trade track, but it it doesn't fit into standardized te$ting.



ladyelaine
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04 Jan 2018, 10:02 pm

starcats wrote:
ladyelaine wrote:
This is what I'm getting at. Have different graduation tracks for students pursuing trades and students going to four year colleges.


It depends where you live, bigger school districts have this. I remember this in my tiny school district growing up, and no big deal. Now with the emphasis on testing, there is a major stigma from school boards, principals, teachers, and even students to have a trade diploma because it's thought of as lower, not different. Teacher's are evaluated on moving students to "higher level thinking," even though there is no actual way to authentically assess what that is for individuals. I can think of a lot of ways to do that for a student on a trade track, but it it doesn't fit into standardized te$ting.


I don't like standardized testing. It's not an accurate measure of a person's abilities or knowledge. My sister had average grades and she always scored low on standardized tests. Not everyone is a good test taker. Half the time the questions on these tests are poorly written.

I also hate how trades are looked down upon. Trades are very valuable and people can make good money with them.



ladyelaine
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04 Jan 2018, 10:05 pm

starcats wrote:
Exactly. There are a lot of well paid, well respected trade positions that are a much better fit for a lot of people, but the data factor has schools pushing everyone into college. Then these people who could be set in a career instead have to continue struggling academically and often end up dropping out or don't learn anything that will lead to the right career for them.


It's unfortunate as not everyone can handle college. My sister struggled with college academic courses so she is just sticking with graphic design certification instead of a two year degree.



AceofPens
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04 Jan 2018, 10:14 pm

You can thank the Obama administration for the lack of attention to trade school vocations. His aim coming into office was to raise the rate of students entering college to 60%. He was ambitious, and he failed, but some results can be found in the further degradation of trade courses. Regardless of what options should be available to non-academic students, though, we certainly do need more college graduates. Other countries have much higher rates and are doing better economically as a result. We're already playing catch-up. That said, I don't think we need to remove the option of vocational studies from high schools, which can only be detrimental to the students who need that option in lieu of academic pursuits. There should be a balance, hopefully including the steady rise of college attendance. Have you looked at the Finland public school system? It might be similar to what you'd like, and it certainly works for them.


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