Are women blind, or super-vigilant, or both?

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And that endeavor probably doesn't pay well so for now its not 'going somewhere'(money). I know, I too live on a stipend while my wife brings in the real money. So until you are no longer a student and have secured academic/private sector employment some people are going to see you as a financial gamble, particularly at the front end of a relationship when you don't share a strong emotional attachment. Even a fellow grad student if you display trouble with finding work and or not wanting to for [insert reason]. That doesn't mean everyone is like that.



Going back to what I just said, I think it was your attitude about 'progressing' beyond being a student (in their mind).



Because you texted that word to her. Why say it in her own words when she can directly quote you.



Lack of skill maybe. Maybe it was a miscommunication. You said she said:

"so you were interested before and not interested now?"

and you responded:

"yes I like you now"

Answering that question with a yes followed by an interpretable reason could also have been the issue.

Just my interpretation.

That reminds me to the English question I had just when I came to the US, back in 1994. I remember noticing that when one person says "I don't" and the other person responds "yes you do", it doesn't make logical sense, because they are actually disagreeing, so why should they say "yes". So, logically, it would make a lot more sense to say "no you do" instead of "yes you do" -- and similarly "yes you don't" instead of "no you don't".

But you see, since I eventually learned the American way of speaking, I use "yes you do" as a way to disagree -- despite there being a "yes". In the same way, when she said "you are not interested now" and I said "yes I like you now" the word "yes" was actually indicating disagreement rather than agreement. Now, since she is English speaker herself, I assumed that she knew it?

Or are you saying that in this particular context the word "yes" actually indicates an agreement -- just like I used to think back in 1994? Like could it be that in order for "yes" to mean a disagreement I would have to use the same words she did (and she used the word interested rather than like) but if I use different words than she did then the word "yes" becomes an agreement? Or is there some other explanation for this switch?

Actually, Example 1 in the previous thread (that you can see here viewtopic.php?t=387897 ) is the same as Example 3 in the current thread. But, other than that, everything else is separate. Although I would put any one of the examples from that thread into the category of "Example 1" in the current thread, since its the same kind of phenomenon.

In any case, now that I look at the three examples in the other thread, I feel like in those cases I, too, was angry about what women did rather than taking out an anger from elsewhere. I think the thread where I talked about taking anger on women about things that have nothing to do with them is a different thread from that. For example, I talked about some of such cases here (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=382682)

But back to what you are saying. Your point is basically that I might use the word "care" in a different way than the way the woman uses it, but the woman might not realize it. But here is a question then: what if I first say "I don't care" and then -- after the woman gets upset at me -- I say "yes I do care". In this case, how would she make sense of this, and why would she choose to believe the first statement rather than the second statement? Do you think that, at the point when she does hear those two "opposite" statements, she will come to realize that the word "care" has two different meanings? But then how would she decide which meaning I was using the first time and the second time? In order to explain her reaction I would have to say that she probably decided that the first time I said I don't care in terms of the kind of caring that she wants, and during the second time I said I do care in terms of the kind of caring that she doesn't want. But how did she decide it is this way rather than the other way around?

^ Yes good advice

Off topic:

Off topic:

^

The ladies are right!

Seems a good explanation. You should read the postings of the ladies here again and care about them. Nobody likes longlasting explanations about how right you have been. Longlasting explanations about such nonsense aren't funny as well as all explanations about things your opposite doesn't really care. Better ask immediately why you made her upset or angry. And please care about the KISS principle here and to Keep It Simply Short if you post here. It's not nice to waste the time of others using to longlasting explanations.

Last edited by quite an extreme on 24 Sep 2020, 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't remember if I asked them or they volunteered the answer but, one way or the other, I did get those answers and I got it from them rather than from my head -- or else I wouldn't have been so surprised about the words they used.

Or are you saying that -- after they gave me those answers -- I should have asked further questions instead of making "statements" as to why I disagree with them? For example instead of saying "of course I care what you feel or else I wouldn't be angry" I should ask "why do you think I don't care despite the fact that my anger shows that I do"? I guess from where I sit it doesn't seem to make much of a difference: both are argumentative. But what would you suggest I do then?

Try never to make such kind of statements. They wan't you to care them instead of yourself as much and the meaning of your own words in the past. The women are not your enemy and don't want a dissertation about whether you have been right or not.


Don't be argumentative at all. Why were you arguing and fighting for nothing? Women want to be loved but not fought. Beside of this are your language skills really poor and for this you shouldn't ever become an unpolite way. Sample:

She said she likes that you have been trying to improve. And you did reply that you are disliking to care what she appreciates at all. For this it was not sarcastic but a totally nasty thing of you. Sombody who likes someone other would always care what the other appreciates because it's what makes the other happy. You were saying that don't care what she appreciates at all and not just about that special thing! This meant you didn't care at all whether she becomes happy. Why should she want to stay with somebody who don't want her being happy?

The basic law of communication says that you don't have said what you have meant to say but always what the other did understand. Don't ever try to be argumentative because your language skills aren't really the best and you are often very unaware of what you have really said.

I *do* want her to be happy. The whole point is that I didn't think she was. I thought she said the word "appreciates" just out of politeness but, in reality, she wasn't happy at all. And what I *intended* to convey by my remark was "I don't care how many times you use the *word* appreciate -- I want you to *actually* be happy". And I phrased it that way because I was really frustrated that she wasn't happy despite my efforts to make her happy.

I meant that your reasoning why she should have noticed that your statement that you don't care can't be the truth relies on your interpretation of the word 'care'. It is not necessarily a natural conclusion using a more narrow meaning of the word 'care'.
That the both of you might not have a common understanding about in which ways you should care may also play a role in the arguments that follow. But it might not be quite that simple.



In the example in this thread you first said 'I don't care what you appreciate' which doesn't leave much room for interpretation. You think she should have known that you didn't mean it, but your argumentation for why is kind of flimsy.
People who don't care much what their partner appreciates or about their partner's happiness exist. It's not too far fetched to take it seriously.
You second guessing her lack of responses doesn't mean that you care how she feels in every relevant way. I don't know all the exact situations in which that happened, but it might just indicate that you care how she feels about you. Caring how she feels about you is fine, but probably not enough for her.
That you wouldn't declare how you don't care like that if you truly didn't care about something makes sense, but it doesn't always allow to conclude that the exact opposite of every statement where you say you don't care is true. 'I don't care what you appreciate' comes across as something said in anger. However, anger just means you cared about something about the situation enough to get angry.

If you say you do care afterwards - and I don't know what exactly you said in this situation - she may or may not believe you. For all she knows you might be saying it only because your statement had a negative effect you didn't fully anticipate and you're trying to fix that.
Even if she does believe that you now mean what you say, there's still the possibility that you don't care about her the way she wants you to. Yes, if you say you don't care about X and then that you do care about X it is logical to assume that you mean the same thing by 'care' both times. However, it's not quite as simple as making the initial statement, then taking it back and everything being like neither of the two things had been said. Saying 'I don't care what you appreciate' is also a rude thing to do and saying that the statement isn't actually true doesn't change the fact that you said something rude and (at least seemingly) intentionally hurtful. That in itself contains some clues about what you do and don't care about - at least at that moment.

She was also upset or angry at that point and you know about yourself that you don't always say exactly what you mean when you're angry. She might not have been saying exactly what she thinks, especially not in a precise and unambiguous way either. And how she interpreted things you said might have been influenced by her emotions. I wouldn't have any idea if/what kind of miscommunication was going on between the both of you at that point.

Last edited by NorthWind on 25 Sep 2020, 4:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Alright, but that's really not how that statement would come across to pretty much everyone.

You don't need to tell me. You may have an opinion but skip any verbal fighting and don't ever accuse her for not understanding you and never become intentionally hurtful. It's not that easy to get you always right. Skip long explanations except you are sure that she is really interested in hearing them. She is looking for a guy to have fun with and to share her life with and she may want children what requires somebody who ensures an income during the time that she has to care for the kids. She doesn't want at all to share her life with somebody who isn't nice to her but somebody who is fun to be with. For this stop arguing with the women and try stay always nice except she starts to flirt with other guys.

I guess I thought it should be clear from the context. What would be a logical reason for someone to tell her they don't care what she appreciates and actually mean it? Even if that person is selfish, selfish people like appreciation -- just for a wrong reason -- so why would they declare otherwise?

And then the other thing that doesn't make sense is why was I fighting so hard to get her attention back after she distanced away. If I didn't care, I wouldn't want to get back something I don't care about, would I?

Of course you might say I do care just not in the way she wants me to. But why would I then use the phrase "I don't care" to describe it?

Btw. the woman in example 2 did made have fun of you for testing your reaction. Getting angry is an obviously false reaction. You should always stay relaxed and nice except if it comes to flirting with other guys.

If you still have contact to the one who had a problem with 'care' you may say sorry and that you of course care her and tell her that you have sometimes still problems if it comes to English because of your Russian background and that you still have to learn a lot and but that you want to be with her. May be she gives you another try but care about her wishes a bit more. You should realize that those are as important as your own once you are together. For this be very nice if you have to deny them and always tell why you think it's impossible or even wrong to fullfill them. Don't ever become nasty to her! Good luck!