I feel that my feelings towards others are abnormal.

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Whale_Tuune
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08 Nov 2020, 3:18 pm

For a long time, I've been afraid that I don't feel the right way about other people. I feel largely numb to others, even people that I enjoy being around. It's difficult for me to be interested in other people's interests, even though I know that I need to be to be fair to them. I like other people and everything, but I rarely feel acute affection. More like I feel a fondness for other people or admiration for them.

I have a hard time empathizing. I used to think I lacked empathy, but I later realized that it's more that I can only empathize with experiences that I myself have been through. So if someone discusses being abused by a doctor or shunned by peers, I can empathize, for example. So there are certain situations that I have been through that pull very strongly on my empathy. But if there are situations that I haven't experienced (ie, a death of a loved one) I am concerned for the other person, but I don't feel much empathy.

I used to think I was a narcissist or had ASPD, but I've read that those types don't feel much guilt. Okay, I feel a lot of guilt all of the time. If I think that I've hurt someone else's feelings, I can't stop thinking about it. It's not that I'm worried that that person won't like me (though that's true too), I just feel really bad. I revisit painful memories of all sorts, including ones where I did something wrong. So I feel remorse a lot. But it's really hard for me to feel empathy for people whose experiences are different from mine and it's hard to feel strong affection on a day-to-day basis for people. Even when I feel love for people it's wrapped in guilt (am I doing enough to make them happy?)

So it feels like I feel empathy mainly when:

1. Someone else has been through what I have been through.
2. I've done something wrong to them.
3. I love them (but like also I feel guilty)

When someone is talking about something I haven't been through, I want to be a good listener but it feels mechanical and not natural. Am I a narcissist or are my feelings normal? I really do not want to be a bad person.


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greenmm37
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08 Nov 2020, 3:26 pm

I don't think you're a narcissist - So much of what you wrote is identical to my feelings (always have been). I have a general interest in the well-being of those close to me, but I struggle to feel strong affection for people, outside of what I see is politeness. I know the things you're supposed to say to encourage people or make them happy, and I try to do that when I can, but it's hard because it doesn't always work and that's when I realize it's a scripting thing and the script didn't work haha - sorry for getting off topic though.

I also struggle with true 'empathy' - I'm not a deeply emotional person, and I find my emotions to be relatively self-centered, in that I feel sad when *I'm* sad about something, but it's hard when someone else is sad. Only if I'm very close to that person or if I feel like I've caused it do I begin to feel real emotion at others' struggles. I can feel a *care* for other's issues, if I think of it that way, but not real emotion...

And, I also have dealt my whole life with a huge degree of guilt and remorse, which is something I know you mentioned. Didn't mean to go on, just hope you don't feel so alone. I was actually relieved when I was diagnosed with ASD because it helped me not feel so bad if my emotions/feelings are different than others. Even if your feelings are 'abnormal' by some people's measure, there are others who share your feelings too. Sorry if I misinterpreted anything you said, though - just related in how I read it.



magz
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08 Nov 2020, 3:28 pm

First, there is no "right" way to feel about people. Feelings are feelings, they are signals you receive.

What you describe seems a lot like poor cognitive empathy. It's something completely different than being a narcissist or bad person. Rather, we may think of it as some kind of emotional-social dyslexia. It's hard to read emotional situations of others.


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Whale_Tuune
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08 Nov 2020, 3:43 pm

magz wrote:
First, there is no "right" way to feel about people. Feelings are feelings, they are signals you receive.

What you describe seems a lot like poor cognitive empathy. It's something completely different than being a narcissist or bad person. Rather, we may think of it as some kind of emotional-social dyslexia. It's hard to read emotional situations of others.


How does one improve upon cognitive empathy?


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Whale_Tuune
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08 Nov 2020, 3:45 pm

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I also struggle with true 'empathy' - I'm not a deeply emotional person, and I find my emotions to be relatively self-centered, in that I feel sad when *I'm* sad about something, but it's hard when someone else is sad.


Yes and this is why I thought it may be some form of narcissism. If there is not an "I" involved in the feeling process, I don't feel. I am concerned, like you said. I want to make people feel better. But I don't feel much internal emotion at the outset.


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08 Nov 2020, 5:24 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
For a long time, I've been afraid that I don't feel the right way about other people. I feel largely numb to others, even people that I enjoy being around. It's difficult for me to be interested in other people's interests, even though I know that I need to be to be fair to them. I like other people and everything, but I rarely feel acute affection. More like I feel a fondness for other people or admiration for them.

I have a hard time empathizing. I used to think I lacked empathy, but I later realized that it's more that I can only empathize with experiences that I myself have been through. So if someone discusses being abused by a doctor or shunned by peers, I can empathize, for example. So there are certain situations that I have been through that pull very strongly on my empathy. But if there are situations that I haven't experienced (ie, a death of a loved one) I am concerned for the other person, but I don't feel much empathy.

I used to think I was a narcissist or had ASPD, but I've read that those types don't feel much guilt. Okay, I feel a lot of guilt all of the time. If I think that I've hurt someone else's feelings, I can't stop thinking about it. It's not that I'm worried that that person won't like me (though that's true too), I just feel really bad. I revisit painful memories of all sorts, including ones where I did something wrong. So I feel remorse a lot. But it's really hard for me to feel empathy for people whose experiences are different from mine and it's hard to feel strong affection on a day-to-day basis for people. Even when I feel love for people it's wrapped in guilt (am I doing enough to make them happy?)

So it feels like I feel empathy mainly when:

1. Someone else has been through what I have been through.
2. I've done something wrong to them.
3. I love them (but like also I feel guilty)

When someone is talking about something I haven't been through, I want to be a good listener but it feels mechanical and not natural. Am I a narcissist or are my feelings normal? I really do not want to be a bad person.


I have never thought of myself as a narcist because I know I am not one. I do feel that you were close to describing me if you take the narcist bit out. I do empathize based on my experiences ad I empathize deeply, but things I have not been through, like you describe, I find I can't respond to because I don't know what it would be like. I can try to imagine but it is not the same.



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08 Nov 2020, 9:11 pm

This is the way I've always felt. I don't think it makes a worse person of you. Can you give an example of how this affects your day-to-day existence?


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08 Nov 2020, 9:26 pm

The autism lack of empathy issue is complex and although a person does not have empathy for others,
this does not automatically mean that such a person is a sociopath.

People do not understand this.

Dr Simon Baron Cohen, one of the leading clinical psychologists in the area (and the cousin to Ali G Sasha Baron Cohen), put together a Empathy test called the Empathy Quotient that may be useful to do.
Empathy Quotient

Dr Baron Cohen, also wrote a book several years ago called "Zero Degrees of Empathy"
which may be an interesting read if concerned on the topic.





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08 Nov 2020, 9:43 pm

Just out of interest, i just did the Empathy Quotient test, as listed above.
I got 20 out of 80, and i answered all the questions honestly, including loads of questions
that i thought if anything proved I was very empathetic.

A score below 30 apparently means that i have lack of empathy, although, i thought i wasn't that bad
in comparison to many of the NT people i know. Although the NT people i know, many of them probably are
sociopaths.

Lucky i didn't tune into the dark way they see the world, as someone with ASD who also is into the dark side of life,
isn't a great combination. This is what people who don't like me don't understand.

The person i am is the nice version of what i could be. So, as daft as i may appear to some, those who have crossed me in my life should thank God that i wasn't like many of them, who prey upon the weak and innocent for entertainment.

I am bad enough as it is, an ASD person with little empathy needs no dark influences.
I hate to think what would happen if someone with ASD did get into the dark side of life.
Probably not a good thought to stay on.

I prefer to bring light rather than stamp out light to create darkness.



Whale_Tuune
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08 Nov 2020, 10:06 pm

Yep. There's no reason to let the cynicism of the world make you cruel. There's enough cruelty as is.


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08 Nov 2020, 11:58 pm

Whale_Tuune wrote:
For a long time, I've been afraid that I don't feel the right way about other people. I feel largely numb to others, even people that I enjoy being around. It's difficult for me to be interested in other people's interests, even though I know that I need to be to be fair to them.

To avoid derailing this thread, I've replied in a separate thread here.


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magz
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09 Nov 2020, 3:44 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
How does one improve upon cognitive empathy?

It's a skill, so while one can have more or less talent for it, it generally can be trained.
The ideas I found online include reading fiction where feelings are often described with words; taking acting classes; paying attention and analyzing expressions of other people (preferably ones you don't care about, so it doesn't burden you); paying attention to your own feelings and trying to name them.


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09 Nov 2020, 5:07 am

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I have a hard time empathizing. I used to think I lacked empathy, but I later realized that it's more that I can only empathize with experiences that I myself have been through. So if someone discusses being abused by a doctor or shunned by peers, I can empathize, for example. So there are certain situations that I have been through that pull very strongly on my empathy. But if there are situations that I haven't experienced (ie, a death of a loved one) I am concerned for the other person, but I don't feel much empathy.


Isn't that true for most people? I often read on WP that NTs also feel empathy for those who have experienced the same as them and not so much for those that haven't.
Which is why so many autistics get misunderstood. Like most NTs don't understand our sensory issues, it's because they don't have the sensory issues that are common in autistics. Maybe NTs that DO have sensory issues may understand more.

With all due respect, I am rather triggered by this whole autism and empathy thing. I think that NTs and autistics have equal empathy but it just seems harder for us to express it because there are more NTs than autistics on the planet. So autistics get misunderstood before we get a chance to try to understand NTs.

So basically if an NT makes fun of someone with big ears for the sake of making that person feel bad about their appearance, they still have empathy.
if an Aspie makes fun of someone with big ears for the sake of making that person feel bad about their appearance, they are completely lacking empathy.

That seems to be the way it goes.
Definition of empathy for allistics: Manipulating others people's feelings
Definition of empathy for autistics: Being kind, caring, thoughtful, understanding of everybody

f**k my life. I hate AS and the stupid false lack empathy stereotype s**t that goes with it.


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Last edited by Joe90 on 09 Nov 2020, 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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09 Nov 2020, 5:45 am

greenmm37 wrote:
I'm not a deeply emotional person, and I find my emotions to be relatively self-centered

Many years ago, I read that those on the spectrum tend to be what I call "self-concerned".
It is normal, for many/most of us. 8)



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09 Nov 2020, 6:08 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
magz wrote:
First, there is no "right" way to feel about people. Feelings are feelings, they are signals you receive.

What you describe seems a lot like poor cognitive empathy. It's something completely different than being a narcissist or bad person. Rather, we may think of it as some kind of emotional-social dyslexia. It's hard to read emotional situations of others.


How does one improve upon cognitive empathy?


Practice.
When I was young, I used to imagine 3 different perspectives to help understand a situation. 8)
"Zeroing in", so to speak. 8)

Quote:
What is the difference between cognitive and affective empathy?

There is one crucial difference between cognitive empathy and affective empathy. As discussed, cognitive empathy means you are capable of grasping other people’s thoughts and feelings.

Affective empathy takes it a step further. In addition to understanding, an affective empath also feels other people’s emotions. To have affective empathy is to share their grief, suffering, and joy. This helps you build an emotional connection with others and truly relate to their feelings.

An affective empath also has cognitive empathy, but the reverse may not be true. A cognitive empath may not have affective empathy, which can be a double-edged sword. https://blog.mindvalley.com/cognitive-empathy/


Also:
Quote:
Emotional Empathy

Imagine sitting close to a loved one, such as your child, sibling, or close friend as they begin to cry. What they are experiencing likely has an impact on us, doesn't it? We might begin to feel sad as well. When we experience emotional empathy, we are moving from the cognitive perspective into a shared emotional experience.


I have no problems experiencing "Emotional Empathy", with people/animals I care about.
Maybe I'm not a "Proper" autie. :mrgreen:



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09 Nov 2020, 6:24 am

madbutnotmad wrote:
Dr Simon Baron Cohen, one of the leading clinical psychologists in the area (and the cousin to Ali G Sasha Baron Cohen), put together a Empathy test called the Empathy Quotient that may be useful to do.
Empathy Quotient


Quote:
Your score was 30 out of a possible 80.

Scores of 30 or less indicate a lack of empathy common in people with Autism or Asperger’s Syndrome.

Who would have thought *I* was on the spectrum? :scratch: :mrgreen:

And yes, this thread is all about me. :P :mrgreen: