Today I started a conversation with a girl

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QFT
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11 Nov 2021, 10:32 am

So today morning I was going to enter the bus, and it seemed like a girl looked at me in a friendly way (I am not sure if she smiled or not). I wanted to return the smile but couldn't because I had a mask on (I am not vaccinated). So I just turned my head and she stepped few steps back. So I thought maybe I turned her off because I didn't smile or maybe I misread her and she is scared of me just like the rest of them.

But then when I got in the bus she sat in the seat in front of me. Which is a bit unusual because the bus had a lot of empty seats and I was sitting close to front. So if she was scared of me the way I thought she was, she wouldn't sit at the seat right in front of me. Now, she was sitting sideways and it seemed like she did so because she was sewing. I couldn't know for sure because I could only see her shoulders, and whatever she was sewing was below it. But by the way they moved it sort of seemed that way.

In any case sometimes she would look back, and oftentimes when girls look at me I assume that they are suspicious. But this time it seemed more of a friendly look, kind of like the one she gave at first (back when I felt bad I couldn't smile because of the mask). So I really wanted to start a conversation with her but couldn't bring myself to do that. The easiest way for me to start a conversation would be to ask whether or not I look suspicious because that is the one question I already been asking some people so it won't be stepping out of my comfort zone nearly as much. But I couldn't bring myself to ask that either since, like I said, it didn't really feel that way, and I didn't really feel like lying either. So I was sitting first 7 minutes of the 10 minute ride quietly, debating with myself whether I should ask something. But then during the last 3 minutes of the ride, I finally did. And the conversation went as follows:

Me: Am I making you uncomfortable? I just noticed you keep looking at me
Her: Oh no you are fine
Me: I am sorry for asking that question I have Asperger Syndrome which impairs social skills. So I was thinking maybe I made you uncomfortable by the way my hair is or something like that
Her: Oh no you are totally fine

Then I wanted to ask her how is she doing but couldn't. So I struggled with myself for a minute, and finally asked:

Me: So how is your morning going?
Her: It goes okay, I am tired, I didn't get that much sleep and am trying to wake up. How is yours?
Me: I just got out of bed too. Also tired. But its good though. I was waking up at 5 am lately so its good I got to sleep longer
Her: I could never wake up that early
Me: I don't know if its light that wakes me up, I guess not its still dark at that time, but "something" wakes me up
Her: My sister is like that (then she said few more sentences about herself and her sister, which I don't remember). So what are you up to today
Me: I will be working on a paper I am trying to publish
Her: Are you a writer?
Me: No, it is a physics paper. It has a lot of calculations and I am trying to make sure they have no mistakes before I publish them
Her: Oh wow thats interesting
Me: What about yourself?
Her: Just classes lots of classes

We are walking out of the bus. And I am not that sure whether I should walk in the same direction as her and keep talking or walk in a different direction. I was doing sort of a middle option where I walked in the same direction but was looking as if I was about to turn in a different direction and cross the street.

Her: I am sorry. What was your name again?
Me: My name is (....)
Her: My name is (....)
Me: Nice to meet you

Then I abruptly turned right and crossed the street and ran off (yes I actually ran).

I wish I could ask her what subjects she studies after she said "lots of classes". But like I said it was really hard to force myself to talk every step of the way.

For the most people this conversation would not be a big deal. But to me it seems much better than usual:

1) I finally managed to ask "how is your morning", which is A LOT harder to do than the previous thing I asked her

2) The answers that she gave me were not two-word answers that I usually get

3) She actually asked me questions of her own and even asked my name

I am not sure how it will help though, because my knowing her name is not going to help me ever get in touch with her, unless I get lucky enough to go on the same bus. And I don't remember her face, I don't remember faces, maybe thats one of my problems. But at least she isn't avoiding me, so thats something.



Fireblossom
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11 Nov 2021, 11:35 am

QFT wrote:
The easiest way for me to start a conversation would be to ask whether or not I look suspicious because that is the one question I already been asking some people so it won't be stepping out of my comfort zone nearly as much. But I couldn't bring myself to ask that either since, like I said, it didn't really feel that way, and I didn't really feel like lying either.


It's good that you didn't start a conversation that way... I mean, of course I can't speak for others, but to me that would sound weird coming out of the blue, suspicious even. I think it's better to keep yourself from asking that from people. But the way you started the conversation was good in my opinion, especially since you made it about her by asking "am I making you uncomfortable." To me it just sounds better than "do I look suspicious?", probably because the former has "you" in it. I suppose it sounds less self centered. And the rest sounds like rather normal small talk. The conversation went well.

Literally running off probably looked a little weird, unless she thought you were in a hurry, but don't worry about that too much; stuff happens.

As for how this'll help, well, this particular conversation in itself probably won't, but it's a positive experience, so it'll (probably) increase your self confidence. And you're gathering experience. Eventually, things'll get easier, and a random encounter could lead to something. You're on the right track!



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11 Nov 2021, 12:15 pm

Yeah I'd agree with the other poster it good you did not lead with 'do I seem suspicious'.

Do you generally greet people by asking them if they think negative things about you? If so I'd say that might be one of your major problems in interactions.

This time you did better though.

But yeah if I was on a bus or somewhere and someone started a conversation by asking if I think they are suspicious I'd be a bit worried. As it would feel like they are kind of putting me on the spot and then making it my responsibility to assure them they aren't suspicious. Thing is I don't know them so I have no way to know if they are a rational person or if they're unhinged and might get mean or violent if I say the wrong thing or don't respond. So I would probably tell them they aren't suspicious but then the interaction would be me being afraid of them and hoping they don't take whatever it is bothering them out on me, not a friendly social interaction.

Not saying you are unhinged and violent, but if the first thing you say to someone is 'do you think this negative thing about me or not.' they might worry you could be.

Or they may just not want to deal with your problems since they don't know you so they may keep it quick and short because they are worried you want them to be their counselor or something.

For sure a better greeting would be 'hello' and then idk depending on the situation you can add to that. Or you could make a casual observation about something like 'it's a nice day out today...don't you think.' but mostly keep initial conversations more light hearted and don't lead with asking if you seem suspicious.



QFT
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11 Nov 2021, 5:42 pm

It is interesting that both of you complimented me that I didn't ask whether I look suspicious and I was like "huh? I thought that is precisely what I asked". Because you see, on my end of the line, the question "am I making you uncomfortable" has the same exact meaning, just different words.

I guess Fireblossom did answer this question: if I ask "am I making you uncomfortable" then I am focusing on the other person, but if I ask "do I look suspicious" then I am focusing on myself. But the point is that these two aspects of it are logically tied together. So it is entirely possible to ask about one aspect while wanting to find out about the other aspect. As a matter of fact thats what I did today: I actually was concerned about me-aspect, but I diplomatically asked about her-aspect -- entirely by accident.

And then NT-s keep accusing me that I dwell into words too much and lose meaning. Well, isn't this an example where NT-s do the same thing?

But, on the good side, this is something I can learn to use to my advantage. So now I just learned a way to ask the questions I always wanted to ask without putting people off. A win/win.



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12 Nov 2021, 2:58 pm

Well of course, "am I making you uncomfortable?" can include the idea of you possibly looking suspicious, but it could also mean making another person uncomfortable in some other way. Asking "do I look suspicious" is a much more precise yes or no (or in some cases, I don't know) -type of question that doesn't leave nearly as much space to answer.

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And then NT-s keep accusing me that I dwell into words too much and lose meaning. Well, isn't this an example where NT-s do the same thing?


I'd say yes. I think that NTs in general, with there being exceptions of course, put a lot of attention on how some things are phrased and don't care all that much how other things are phrased. That's fine and all; everyone prioritizes some things over others, but it sure would make things easier if there was some kind of list of things and words that you need to pay a lot of attention to when you speak and a list of words that aren't as important. And of course, those lists don't contain same words for every NT. But I suppose this is (at least part of) what people call chemistry; when people's lists match, they get along better because same kinds of things are important to them... or something? This kind of stuff is what makes socializing impossible to learn solely by logic; different people just bring in too many different possibilities. It's just a matter of constant learning and adapting, I'd say.



enz
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12 Nov 2021, 3:04 pm

If you think there’s even a small chance she likes you always ask for her number. If she isn’t it’s only a number



enz
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12 Nov 2021, 5:30 pm

Also try not to say stuff that assumes they think badly of you. But good on you for having initiative



beady
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18 Nov 2021, 2:25 pm

I agree with the general consensus here - The switch away from your typical entry question to the one you used was much better in my opinion.

You may believe thats its merely a variation of your choice of words with the same logical meaning but theres more to it than that. What is implied is cruically important. By asking a total stranger if you look suspicious, you are planting that idea in the other person's head - its almost impossible to answer that question without a residual feeling of discomfort. I would think that I needed to pay closer attention to what you might be doing to potentially protect myself.

I think your interaction went perfectly. Even the part with you rushing off - you have to get stuff done as you had mentioned in the conversation - it makes sense. It might even have been the best choice. You didnt hang about which could have been uncomfortable. And I do not think it would have been appropriate to ask for her number at that point at all. That veers into desperation territory.

The following may or may not be helpful....

I would suggest you take that bus on the same day of the week at the same time and its very likely you will see her again. I would make sure you had a distinct and useful purpose for doing that though so that you dont blurt out something like , I just wanted to run into you again. Dont say that - its creepy this early in the potential relatioship. If you see her, dont stare or hyper focus, just casually say hi/hello, and hopefully find a seat in front or behind. Across the aisle might be an uncomfortable distance to chat. Then after settling in and looking out the window for minute, ask her how her classes are going, prepare some additional follow up questions BUT dont pepper her like a machine gun with questions, pause and listen, absorb what she is saying. If she is taking something you have taken or that you would like to take, then you can share your opinion but keep it light and no more than a couple sentences followed by another question either related or not to that subject. Don't feel like you have to keep the whole ten minutes filled with conversation. If this goes well, then time another interaction for the next week. IF that ones goes even better, then it might be time to say something like - can i treat you to a coffee when you have a break from classes.

If the second interaction goes particularly well and you feel ready, you could ask to get her a coffe that day.
Keep the coffee date short - 15 or 20 minutes or so and then be on your way. Plan ahead where you will say you need to go so that it flows effortlessly, then go there.

You have no idea if she is already in a relationship or even looking to start one. Your objective is to find common interests or hobbies. If the flow of conversation is easy between you then it might be appropriate to say - would you be interested in seeing a movie/music/museum some evening? If she says no, accept that and move on, but do be friendly if you see her on the bus again. You never know.



OutUponATreeBranch
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21 Nov 2021, 6:25 pm

So... it was food you picked up on her maneuvering near you, that's usually a good sign.

So you did good and you're on your way. It's good practice and should let you know you're headed in the right direction.

I mean heck do you wanna try flirting? I'd have some advice for you on that front, though you'd probably want to understand beforehand that you can get snubbed while flirting.



QFT
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30 Dec 2021, 9:04 am

A couple of weeks ago I was talking to the girl who works at the service desk at that dorm, and she has the same name as her. Now, I don't actually know if it was her. Plenty of people have the same name. But it would "make sense" if it was. Because people who work at the front desk want to get to know people they serve. But once again I don't actually know if it was her or not.

Now, speaking of the woman at the front desk she wears a minishirt, so she is not exactly the person I want to talk to. Because it wouldn't count as her seeing something in me as a person. Rather it would feel like she just wants to talk to every "dirty guy" that comes along, and since I don't want to think of myself as a "dirty guy" that won't be for me.

Again though I don't actually know if the girl in the bus was her or not. I don't remember faces. I am pretty sure the girl at the bus did "not" wear the minishirt (well I don't pay attention to who wears what; but I would have likely noticed if she did). So maybe it was her and she just decided to start wearing minishirt later or maybe it wasn't.

Speaking of girls at the front desk, there is a DIFFERENT girl at the front desk whom I do want to talk. No, that other girl doesn't wear a minishirt: she is properly dressed. And she is slightly overweight, so she has nothing to show anyway. But thats one of the things that makes it feel like she is a real person. And I know for a fact she is NOT the one at the bus because she has different name.

Anyway, when I was asking her to find some information pertaining to my moving from one appartment to the other, she had to wait for someone and she asked me "how are you" as she waited. Then during that conversation she mentioned that she seen me before. I asked her where. She said at the front desk. I then clarified that I was wondering if she saw me elsewhere. Now, she was about to respond to this but I got what I was waiting for at the front desk so I went straight to elevator. I then regretted the fact that I went away in the middle of what could have been a good conversation. But I couldn't think of what to do to re-start it.

Since I am bad with faces I was only 80% sure these were different girls but not 100% sure (although I should have known: the minishirt girl is skinny while the other girl is slightly overweight). So I actually asked that minishirt girl if she was her, the answer was no. Thats actually when minishirt girl told me her name (because I asked "are you name X" and she said "no I am name Y") and that was when I learned that the minishirt girl had the same name as that girl on the bus (but I didn't ask her whether I seen her on the bus or not because, like I said, this whole miniskirt thing turned me off anyway). So I guess if she were to mention to the other girl how I confused the two of them it wouldn't really help me. But of course I don't know if she mentioned it or not.

In any case I went to see my mom in California for the winter break. I will be back to school in January 6. If they would still have the same two girls at the front desk, do you have any suggestions how to approach the situation? Like I said as far as minishirt girl, I don't care about her (regardless of whether she was in the bus or not). I want to establish the connection with that other girl.



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30 Dec 2021, 11:30 am

QFT wrote:
Now, speaking of the woman at the front desk she wears a minishirt, so she is not exactly the person I want to talk to. Because it wouldn't count as her seeing something in me as a person. Rather it would feel like she just wants to talk to every "dirty guy" that comes along, and since I don't want to think of myself as a "dirty guy" that won't be for me.


Wow, someone's prejudiced. Has it occurred to you that some people might not want to talk to you for similiar reasons? As in "this person dresses in way X; he must be very old fashioned. It's better to avoid him."

Quote:
Anyway, when I was asking her to find some information pertaining to my moving from one appartment to the other, she had to wait for someone and she asked me "how are you" as she waited. Then during that conversation she mentioned that she seen me before. I asked her where. She said at the front desk. I then clarified that I was wondering if she saw me elsewhere. Now, she was about to respond to this but I got what I was waiting for at the front desk so I went straight to elevator. I then regretted the fact that I went away in the middle of what could have been a good conversation. But I couldn't think of what to do to re-start it.


Ya, it was rude to leave like that, especially if you left without giving any explanation. If you realized your mistake on the same day or the day after, it would've still been natural to go and apologize for being rude like that, but it's a bit late now. But for future use, in a situation like that you could restart the conversation with: "Hey, sorry for being rude and leaving in the middle of the conversation like that the other day. I'm sorry for asking again, but have you seen me elsewhere too?" But of course, it'd be better if you managed to avoid being rude in the first place.

Quote:
In any case I went to see my mom in California for the winter break. I will be back to school in January 6. If they would still have the same two girls at the front desk, do you have any suggestions how to approach the situation? Like I said as far as minishirt girl, I don't care about her (regardless of whether she was in the bus or not). I want to establish the connection with that other girl.


First and foremost, don't be rude to the "minishirt girl" even if you don't care about her. You see, if she and the other girl are friends, it's more likely than not that if you're rude to the "minishirt girl", that'll cause the other girl to dislike you. I'm not saying you need to be friends with her, but be polite.

As for how to establish a connection with that other girl, starting with some short small talk occasionally would probably be for the best. Like, after you go back, you can ask how her winter break was. If she asks the same question back, then answer in the same manner she did. As in, if she gives a short answer, like "it was good", then you give a short answer like "mine was good as well", too. If you want the conversation to go on longer, you could add "I went ice skating (or whatever you did) during the break, how about you?" Don't start a long detailed explanation of your break and remember to include her in the conversation by asking questions (but not too personal) and perhaps commenting on things she says (preferably in a positive way.)



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30 Dec 2021, 11:38 am

Fireblossom wrote:
... First and foremost, don't be rude to the "minishirt girl" even if you don't care about her. You see, if she and the other girl are friends, it's more likely than not that if you're rude to the "minishirt girl", that'll cause the other girl to dislike you. I'm not saying you need to be friends with her, but be polite. ...
Better advice: Do not be rude to any women, even when they are rude to you.

Women tend to talk to each other (surprise!), and sometimes they will talk about the rude creeps they have met while on the job.

Do not be rude.  Do not be a creep.  Ever.



QFT
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30 Dec 2021, 1:12 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
QFT wrote:
Now, speaking of the woman at the front desk she wears a minishirt, so she is not exactly the person I want to talk to. Because it wouldn't count as her seeing something in me as a person. Rather it would feel like she just wants to talk to every "dirty guy" that comes along, and since I don't want to think of myself as a "dirty guy" that won't be for me.


Wow, someone's prejudiced. Has it occurred to you that some people might not want to talk to you for similiar reasons? As in "this person dresses in way X; he must be very old fashioned. It's better to avoid him."


I didn't actually noticed that I was making assumptions. Thanks for pointing it out though. I see your point now that you did.

First and foremost, let me clarify that I am perfectly fine with MOST miniskirts. The thing is that HER miniskirt was far more revealing than most. In case of most girls they might reveal 1/3 of their stomach or so, in her case she revealed 2/3. That plus also it was a bit odd that she did it while she was at the front desk. Now if most girls were to do the same she did I would have been fine with that too. But the fact that she revealed more than most girls is what made me wonder about her intentions. So I wasn't being "old fashioned" here. I was comparing her to other girls right now in 2021.

This being said, I still think you made a good point. Namely, I stand out from most people too. So why is it okay to judge her in her case, but its not okay to judge me in my case. I guess the difference is that what she did is deliberate while what I did is not. But of course the question is how would the "neutral observer" know it? Maybe she just grabbed the first thing around and didn't pay attention (which is what I typically do). Or maybe I was trying to convey some message by having a messy hair (as hippies might do). I know the latter is not the case due to my first hand experience but I can't expect others to know it since they can't read my mind.

However I can answer that point in the following way. Few years ago I was at a conference and there was a guy whose hair was literally standing. So I remember asking the girl I was talking to back then why is it he wasn't ostracized for his hair but I am ostracized for mine (no that girl was not there at the conference I just asked her for her opinion based on my description). Now what she told me is that this guy probably did it on purpose to convey that he belongs to hippie or some other subculture. She then told me that, as long as I do SOMETHING with my hair -- whether it is making it neat OR hippie OR braids OR etc. -- then its good. But if I don't do ANYTHING with my hair, thats when its a turn off. Basically "doing something deliberate" with my hair would separate me from the homeless who wouldn't have money for it, while "leaving the hair as is" would make me look just like homeless. At least thats how she explained it.

So, going back to the topic of the miniskirt girl, I guess my mindset is opposite to other peoples. Because I am thinking "hey that girl did it on purpose while I don't, so that girl is more to blame". While others think just the opposite: "that girl did it on purpose while I don't, so I am more to blame". I like to blame people who do it on puprose (for being jerks) while others like to blame people who don't do it on purpose (for being clueless). I feel it is unfair that the clueless are being more punished than the jerks. But apparently others don't agree.

Fireblossom wrote:
Quote:
Anyway, when I was asking her to find some information pertaining to my moving from one appartment to the other, she had to wait for someone and she asked me "how are you" as she waited. Then during that conversation she mentioned that she seen me before. I asked her where. She said at the front desk. I then clarified that I was wondering if she saw me elsewhere. Now, she was about to respond to this but I got what I was waiting for at the front desk so I went straight to elevator. I then regretted the fact that I went away in the middle of what could have been a good conversation. But I couldn't think of what to do to re-start it.


Ya, it was rude to leave like that, especially if you left without giving any explanation. If you realized your mistake on the same day or the day after, it would've still been natural to go and apologize for being rude like that, but it's a bit late now. But for future use, in a situation like that you could restart the conversation with: "Hey, sorry for being rude and leaving in the middle of the conversation like that the other day. I'm sorry for asking again, but have you seen me elsewhere too?" But of course, it'd be better if you managed to avoid being rude in the first place.


It wasn't obvious she had more to say. Becuase she DID answer me that she didn't see me elsewhere. But she sort of took the kind of quick breath that made it seem like she wanted to say something else. But thats what I thought as an afterthought half a minute later. I guess I will never find out whether she wanted to say something else or not.

What I REALLY want to do after I come back is to tell her about my Asperger and then recollect that incident, apologize for it, and simply ask her what it is she wanted to say. I guess my past experience says that this kind of thing doesn't usually help. Usully people are only pushed away further when I overanalyze things like that. But I just really want to "undo" that mistake.

Fireblossom wrote:
First and foremost, don't be rude to the "minishirt girl" even if you don't care about her.


Okay what do you mean by rude? If you mean walking up to her and saying "hey why do you wear miniskirt", I won't do that. I mean I don't see how I EVER would.

If you mean simply walking away from conversation, I guess sometimes that happens even with the people I like (as evident from what happened with the other girl). So if you are saying that "I will make more faux passes by accident with the miniskirt girl simply because I care for her less so I pay less attention" I guess thats possible. But again I make enough of such faux passes even with people I like. So its not really about being judgemental but about learning how to stop making faux passes. Which I hope to do so that I won't have regrets such as the one I had from my last faux pas. Plus talking so someone is still better than nothing (even if that someone happens to be a miniskirt girl).



QFT
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30 Dec 2021, 1:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
... First and foremost, don't be rude to the "minishirt girl" even if you don't care about her. You see, if she and the other girl are friends, it's more likely than not that if you're rude to the "minishirt girl", that'll cause the other girl to dislike you. I'm not saying you need to be friends with her, but be polite. ...
Better advice: Do not be rude to any women, even when they are rude to you.

Women tend to talk to each other (surprise!), and sometimes they will talk about the rude creeps they have met while on the job.

Do not be rude.  Do not be a creep.  Ever.


I thought the word "creep" means showing sexual attention. Now I realize while SOME guys might show sexual attention in respones to a miniskirt. But the question is why would I do it -- given that I said thats the exact thing I don't like? That sounds like a logical contradiction.

As far as other kinds of rudeness *outside* of anything sexual, I can think of several examples over the years with both women *and* men. But "over the years" is the key word: its not like I do it every day. But do you think that a dosen of such examples were enough for rumors to spread so that "nobody in town" approaches me?



QFT
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30 Dec 2021, 6:35 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
You see, if she and the other girl are friends, it's more likely than not that if you're rude to the "minishirt girl", that'll cause the other girl to dislike you.


First of all they might not be friends: they just happened to have the same job these particular few months. However, you made a good point that made me think about something else. *If* I were to take a *hypothetical* and assume that they were friends then -- regardless of whether or not I act on it -- my whole thinking would miss the entire social context. Because in this case it would be silly to say that they have such a different sets of morals, which is what I was assuming the dress supposedly revealed. Usually people who are friends have similar morals.

Well, except that saying "people who are friends are exactly alike" is silly too -- just in a different way. So I guess in order not to be silly I have to actually know those people and people around them and what they usually do and whom they do it with, etc. Now, do everyone know this, particularly since I am talking about 6 story building? Probably not. But probably they know at least something about maybe 10 or 20 of them, especially if they lived there for half a year like I did. But I can't tell that about myself either. The only two people I know (other than those two girls) are my hall coordinator, building manager, and my roommate. And even then I don't know anything about them other than the above-mentioned titles. This is probably at the root of why I approach the whole thing in such a weird way.

So I guess maybe my whole entire problem is that I am outside of social context. Thats why the only information I have is who puts what clothes, which makes me sound rather silly. And similarly others don't know me that well (since again I don't fit into the social context) thats why my clothes is the only thing they have to judge me with (unless they judge me for not fitting into the social context, which is also a negative). And all my posts where I am "upset they don't want to talk to me" just show yet again how I don't fit into the social context. Within the social context its no longer about "do they talk to me", its more about "who talks to whom, and why". And I don't know nearly enough about people around me to even begin to think on this level. Or I wouldn't be asking "is that woman at the front desk the same as the woman on the bus".

In any case the point is that I was not trying to be all that dogmatic and say "everyone who wears miniskirts of her size have bad morals". Rather I just lack any social context outside of this, thats why its all I got to work with. If I were to get to know them, I wouldn't be so dogmatic I am sure. I would probably be looking beyond all that. And then who knows maybe I would have liked the miniskirt girl. Well I know the chances for that are relatively slim. But its all guesswork. So no point in being dogmatic over guesswork (much less being rude towards someone due to this).



Fireblossom
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02 Jan 2022, 8:39 am

QFT wrote:
This being said, I still think you made a good point. Namely, I stand out from most people too. So why is it okay to judge her in her case, but its not okay to judge me in my case. I guess the difference is that what she did is deliberate while what I did is not. But of course the question is how would the "neutral observer" know it? Maybe she just grabbed the first thing around and didn't pay attention (which is what I typically do). Or maybe I was trying to convey some message by having a messy hair (as hippies might do). I know the latter is not the case due to my first hand experience but I can't expect others to know it since they can't read my mind.


Exactly.

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However I can answer that point in the following way. Few years ago I was at a conference and there was a guy whose hair was literally standing. So I remember asking the girl I was talking to back then why is it he wasn't ostracized for his hair but I am ostracized for mine (no that girl was not there at the conference I just asked her for her opinion based on my description). Now what she told me is that this guy probably did it on purpose to convey that he belongs to hippie or some other subculture. She then told me that, as long as I do SOMETHING with my hair -- whether it is making it neat OR hippie OR braids OR etc. -- then its good. But if I don't do ANYTHING with my hair, thats when its a turn off. Basically "doing something deliberate" with my hair would separate me from the homeless who wouldn't have money for it, while "leaving the hair as is" would make me look just like homeless. At least thats how she explained it.

So, going back to the topic of the miniskirt girl, I guess my mindset is opposite to other peoples. Because I am thinking "hey that girl did it on purpose while I don't, so that girl is more to blame". While others think just the opposite: "that girl did it on purpose while I don't, so I am more to blame". I like to blame people who do it on puprose (for being jerks) while others like to blame people who don't do it on purpose (for being clueless). I feel it is unfair that the clueless are being more punished than the jerks. But apparently others don't agree.


The way I understood the girl's answer was that it was okay for that other guy to have messy hair 'cause he had a reason for it, but not okay for you to have it since, in her eyes, you didn't have a reason. As in, since you didn't specifically make sure your hair looks like that for some cause, it just means that you left it like that on purpose because you don't care enough to make it look decent. So, the difference between you and the other guy, in the girl's eyes, was that the other guy's hair looked messy in order for him to fit a certain group, while yours looked messy because you didn't care enough to make yourself look decent.

And another possibility that occurred to me while writing the above was that you had an overall messy appearance while the other guy did not, so with the other guy, the messy hair was easier to overlook because he looked decent otherwise. Not that I know if either of you looked otherwise messy that day, but if you did and he didn't then it could be the key here.

For what it's worth, I also prefer to blame people who do rude or bad things on purpose over those who do them on accident. However, often people can't tell these two apart. There's also the fact that majority of people would certainly know by your age and long before how to take care of themselves enough to not look messy and know lots of the social rules that you break, so when people see someone who doesn't fit that assumption, it's not that weird for them to think that the person is either being rude on purpose or have something seriously off about them (like being a drug addict etc.)

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What I REALLY want to do after I come back is to tell her about my Asperger and then recollect that incident, apologize for it, and simply ask her what it is she wanted to say. I guess my past experience says that this kind of thing doesn't usually help. Usully people are only pushed away further when I overanalyze things like that. But I just really want to "undo" that mistake.


Don't; it'll most likely make you look worse. The best way to "undo" the bad impression is to make a good impression on her enough times. In this case, since all you did was a simple small talk error, it should get fixed by enough successful small talk.

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Okay what do you mean by rude? If you mean walking up to her and saying "hey why do you wear miniskirt", I won't do that. I mean I don't see how I EVER would.


That too, but I also meant things like ignoring her if she says hello to you. Sometimes people do that with those they don't like or have a bad impression of, and I don't know you well enough to determine if you'd do that or not.

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First of all they might not be friends: they just happened to have the same job these particular few months. However, you made a good point that made me think about something else. *If* I were to take a *hypothetical* and assume that they were friends then -- regardless of whether or not I act on it -- my whole thinking would miss the entire social context. Because in this case it would be silly to say that they have such a different sets of morals, which is what I was assuming the dress supposedly revealed. Usually people who are friends have similar morals.


I know they might not be, that's why I said "if." And while it's true that friends tend to have similiar morals, there are two things that you should take in to account:
1. They might not see how one dresses as a question of moral at all but just a question of style. Just because the other girl doesn't dress in miniskirt/minishirt (which one are we talking about here, really? First message said shirt, this one skirt, but you spoke about exposing the stomach, so...) doesn't mean she thinks it's immoral. She might simply not wear one because she doesn't like how it looks. Or maybe she does wear one sometimes but just hasn't worn one the times you've seen her.
2. While there are certain things that people don't budge on, they can have compromises with friends and don't have to agree on everything. Like, let's say that two friends both thought that no one deserves to starve to death, and that was enough of moral common ground for them to be friends, even if they disagreed on who should feed a person who can't feed themselves. One of them might say the society, while the other might say that the society should only be forced to step up if the person had no relatives alive that could provide for them. Their views aren't completely at line with each other, but enough for them to not be upset about the other's views.