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Calfornia...Has it been destroyed by left-wing polices?

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auntblabby
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15 Nov 2022, 8:18 pm

if right wing policies aim to keep working class folks like myself from obtaining affordable healthcare, and all the righties can say to me [with a snicker] is "get rich or die trying!" - i'd have to conclude that at the very least there is some malice aforethought going on there.



blitzkrieg
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15 Nov 2022, 8:19 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
So many people on here that believe everything conservative or right-wing is stupid or evil.


Probably because this board is full of persons from disadvantaged social groups, which U.S. conservative policies are fairly hostile towards.



blitzkrieg
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15 Nov 2022, 8:20 pm

auntblabby wrote:
if right wing policies aim to keep working class folks like myself from obtaining affordable healthcare, and all the righties can say to me [with a snicker] is "get rich or die trying!" - i'd have to conclude that at the very least there is some malice aforethought going on there.


Get rich or die trying doesn't even work nowadays if you are born into the working class. If it does work, the odds were slim and you will have achieved something spectacular, in most cases.



Eurythmic
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15 Nov 2022, 8:32 pm

Pepe wrote:
My right-wing sources have pointed out that liberal policies regarding crime have created a chronic situation of shop ransacking, causing businesses to close down and go out of business or relocate to other states, for example.
Generally, it is suggested that crime is out of control in California.


This has been my observation from watching happenings in Cali on the internet.
The softly softly approach of non intervention when dealing with criminals appears to be resulting in many businesses closing as the huge amount of "stock shrinkage" makes it unviable to continue trading. Now the locals are upset because many of the basic retail services in their neighbourhoods are gone.

I was on holiday in Cali about 12 years ago and didn't see any of the encampments of street shitters like you see in the media now. I'm not sure I would want to visit Cali now after hearing that the governor of San Fran has decided not to do anything about criminals. Is it a nice place to visit still? Is it safe there? From what I'm seeing on the internet I doubt it.



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15 Nov 2022, 8:51 pm

Eurythmic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
My right-wing sources have pointed out that liberal policies regarding crime have created a chronic situation of shop ransacking, causing businesses to close down and go out of business or relocate to other states, for example.
Generally, it is suggested that crime is out of control in California.


This has been my observation from watching happenings in Cali on the internet.
The softly softly approach of non intervention when dealing with criminals appears to be resulting in many businesses closing as the huge amount of "stock shrinkage" makes it unviable to continue trading. Now the locals are upset because many of the basic retail services in their neighbourhoods are gone.

I was on holiday in Cali about 12 years ago and didn't see any of the encampments of street shitters like you see in the media now. I'm not sure I would want to visit Cali now after hearing that the governor of San Fran has decided not to do anything about criminals. Is it a nice place to visit still? Is it safe there? From what I'm seeing on the internet I doubt it.


I can't speak for the Bay Area, but it's safe enough in SoCal. The homeless problem has definitely gotten worse, but the stores are all open in the cities around me.



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15 Nov 2022, 10:33 pm

Fnord wrote:
stratozyck wrote:
You set up a nice story that confirms your view point - the real problem is not brain surgeons and lawnmower operators, its the rich capital owners who are buying up land as investment vehicles that are driving up the rent and housing costs for the rest of us. Lawnmower operators used to get paid more but because the middle class is getting squeezed by health care and housing costs, they can afford less so their wages aren't as high as they could be.
Instead of criticism (and assuming to know what I am thinking) try coming up with a solution, like DW_a_mom did:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Basic needs met with enough freedom for innovation to thrive.
Blitz identified this as the Scandinavian Model, which seems to work well for them.

And Blabs, it is not the Americans who nix the plan (many of us would gladly participate); it is the wealthy, conservative lawmakers who shoot down every effort to provide a safety net for those who cannot provide one for themselves.  Remember "Obamacare"?

Obama care wasn't a safety net. It was a power grab by the government to force people to pay for services they didn't want or need that resulted in many people having to pay more than they were paying previously.



auntblabby
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16 Nov 2022, 12:39 am

EVERYBODY at some point in their life will require expensive health care that is for the most part unaffordable sans gov't subsidy. obamacare was a useful kludge, the best that could be done with our present political system/medical system and backwards social consciousness in amuuuurica.



Fnord
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16 Nov 2022, 3:30 am

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
So many people on here that believe everything conservative or right-wing is stupid or evil.
So?  Here is what is wrong with Conservatism:

Conservative and Christian media organizations along with American conservative figures typically support what they consider Christian values, i.e.:

• A punitive and literal interpretation of the Christian Bible that takes priority over secular law.
• American exceptionalism (e.g., American is the greatest country, and all other countries should follow America's rules.)
• Capital punishment
• Defense of American culture from perceived (yet unreal) threats, foreign and domestic.
• Moral absolutism (black-and-white morality, e.g., something is either 'good' or 'evil'.)
• Traditional family values (i.e., Male father, female mother, and as many children as can be born)
• Voting as a privilege, not a right.

Conservative and Christian media organizations along with American conservative figures typically oppose what they consider "sinful" values, i.e.:

• Abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, or fetal defect.
• Euthanasia, even when the victim of a terminal illness requests it.
• Moral relativism and situational ethics (e.g., something may be 'good' in one context, 'evil' in another, and 'irrelevant' in still another.)
• Same-sex marriage
• Science (e.g.: epidemiology, climate science, reproduction, and evolution.)
• Social welfare programs (remember "Obamacare"?)
• Voting as an inalienable right for every citizen, 18 and older

Conservatism, especially of the Trumpian variety, is anathema to America's promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all.



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 3:34 am

Fnord wrote:
^If that is true, then it would seem that most folks would prefer being raised as complacent and passive sheep, instead of seeking self-improvement and wealth.

We cannot remain spoon-fed infants forever.[/color]


:mrgreen:



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 3:38 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
I propose option C:

A society and an economy where people can prosper and be rewarded for hard work & a society that also has a reasonable social safety net.

I.E. Australia & Canada in regard to the health system.
American health is appalling.
I suspect the social security system is better, also.

blitzkrieg wrote:
These places do exist in Europe, in Scandinavian countries, Germany & France and so on. :mrgreen:



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 3:46 am

DW_a_mom wrote:

Mobility is a worthy point. My son, after all, is pursuing a "no car" model with biking being his primary mode of transportation, with services like Lyft and rental cars to fill in the gaps. We did the math and realized he can make pretty generous use of ride share services and rental cars and still be paying less per month than he would in car payments. But if someone has mobility issues, the formula would be quite different.


I would never voluntarily give up my car. I like the total freedom, and I have 3 k9 kids to consider.



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 3:50 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
b) It is more environmentally friendly.



Skrew that.
I don't have any human kids so I have fulfilled any carbon footprint obligation. 8)



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 4:18 am

auntblabby wrote:
if right wing policies aim to keep working class folks like myself from obtaining affordable healthcare, and all the righties can say to me [with a snicker] is "get rich or die trying!" - i'd have to conclude that at the very least there is some malice aforethought going on there.


The left wing is in government now, and yet it doesn't seem to be doing a good job regarding health care in Amerria.



auntblabby
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16 Nov 2022, 4:27 am

Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if right wing policies aim to keep working class folks like myself from obtaining affordable healthcare, and all the righties can say to me [with a snicker] is "get rich or die trying!" - i'd have to conclude that at the very least there is some malice aforethought going on there.


The left wing is in government now, and yet it doesn't seem to be doing a good job regarding health care in Amerria.

that is because there are not enough democrats in the congress to get over institutional blocks to reform. we long have been hamstrung by divided gov't or outright fascist rule.



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 4:36 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
So many people on here that believe everything conservative or right-wing is stupid or evil.


Probably because this board is full of persons from disadvantaged social groups, which U.S. conservative policies are fairly hostile towards.


I think that has something to do with it.



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 4:41 am

Eurythmic wrote:
Pepe wrote:
My right-wing sources have pointed out that liberal policies regarding crime have created a chronic situation of shop ransacking, causing businesses to close down and go out of business or relocate to other states, for example.
Generally, it is suggested that crime is out of control in California.


This has been my observation from watching happenings in Cali on the internet.
The softly softly approach of non intervention when dealing with criminals appears to be resulting in many businesses closing as the huge amount of "stock shrinkage" makes it unviable to continue trading. Now the locals are upset because many of the basic retail services in their neighbourhoods are gone.

I was on holiday in Cali about 12 years ago and didn't see any of the encampments of street shitters like you see in the media now. I'm not sure I would want to visit Cali now after hearing that the governor of San Fran has decided not to do anything about criminals. Is it a nice place to visit still? Is it safe there? From what I'm seeing on the internet I doubt it.


Based on my sources, crime leniency is a big issue, but I am sitting on the fence about this.