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Nightwing82
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12 May 2025, 7:38 pm

My family knows I'm an atheist. They live in another country, so I haven't had to deal with it much. But I miss my family and have been thinking about moving closer to where they live.

I do not believe that Allah sent revelation to the prophet Muhammed, and I don't see myself becoming convinced of that. But I'm thinking about playing along to fit. That doing so will make my life easier.

And who knows: maybe I'll even manage to some money from grifting. 8)

But seriously; would this be a good idea?



MaxE
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12 May 2025, 7:58 pm

Nightwing82 wrote:
My family knows I'm an atheist. They live in another country, so I haven't had to deal with it much. But I miss my family and have been thinking about moving closer to where they live.

I do not believe that Allah sent revelation to the prophet Muhammed, and I don't see myself becoming convinced of that. But I'm thinking about playing along to fit. That doing so will make my life easier.

And who knows: maybe I'll even manage to some money from grifting. 8)

But seriously; would this be a good idea?

I suspect many people practice Islam despite having doubts about the fundamental beliefs, because they still get personal satisfaction from the discipline and feeling of being a part of that community.


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12 May 2025, 8:05 pm

Nightwing82 wrote:
I do not believe that Allah sent revelation to the prophet Muhammed, and I don't see myself becoming convinced of that. But I'm thinking about playing along to fit. That doing so will make my life easier.

And who knows: maybe I'll even manage to some money from grifting. 8)

But seriously; would this be a good idea?


Of all the things to sell out your personal beliefs for.....ISLAM??? The Flying Spaghetti Monster is just shaking his noodles in frustration.


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12 May 2025, 8:10 pm

Nightwing82 wrote:
But seriously; would this be a good idea?
No.


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12 May 2025, 9:12 pm

Both are not good ideas.


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12 May 2025, 11:29 pm

no



roronoa79
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13 May 2025, 10:32 am

Im confused by OP's OP. You say you're considering re-converting, but you make it sound more like you would just be playing along to fit in.
Playing along isn't really honest or healthy in the long run. Doing so to grift others is immoral on top of being unhealthy.

Part of why I stopped going to church was just because I couldn't keep feigning enthusiasm. I don't need their acceptance if their acceptance is contingent on me telling them things I don't believe.

Also: oh, boy! A thread about Islam! Take a drink every time a pseudo-intellectual takes a dump on Islam so they can feel oh-so smart! Oh-so educated and informed! Good gosh they must be so smart and informed to crap on Islam! They're really reaching for the stars with such intellectually and socially daring statements! Way to speak truth to power, guys! /s.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

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Nightwing82
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13 May 2025, 1:25 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Im confused by OP's OP. You say you're considering re-converting, but you make it sound more like you would just be playing along to fit in.
Playing along isn't really honest or healthy in the long run. Doing so to grift others is immoral on top of being unhealthy.

Part of why I stopped going to church was just because I couldn't keep feigning enthusiasm. I don't need their acceptance if their acceptance is contingent on me telling them things I don't believe.

Also: oh, boy! A thread about Islam! Take a drink every time a pseudo-intellectual takes a dump on Islam so they can feel oh-so smart! Oh-so educated and informed! Good gosh they must be so smart and informed to crap on Islam! They're really reaching for the stars with such intellectually and socially daring statements! Way to speak truth to power, guys! /s.


First of all, yes the point is to fit in and avoid headaches. Being constantly pressured to defend my apostacy to family member who have no interest in honestly understanding my perspective. I've grown disillusioned and weary of the US, and I miss my family. The point is just to play along when I'm around certain people. But since they already know about my apostacy, I will need to make some show of announcing that I've returned to the fold. I get where you're coming from regarding not wanting to pretend to be someone you're not; but not all of us are from Western cultures where irregiosity is normalized and accepted.

Second: where the fudge do you get off on calling me a seudo-intellectual. Ironically, people like to throw such rubbish around are themselves arrogant prices who think they know everything. At what point did I "dump on Islam" in this or any other thread? All I've ever said is that I don't believe the religion and that I'm an apostate. And there's the double standard that people like yourself can bash Christianity all you want, but if a ex-Muslim criticizes Islam than we're somehow out of line. Despite the fact that we have forgotten more about Islam than you've ever known, and (unlike you) we would be sentenced to death in our home countries simply for not believing.



Last edited by Nightwing82 on 13 May 2025, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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13 May 2025, 1:37 pm

Do what you need to do to survive mate

I don't think you'll get struck down by lightning for living a lie

Millions of people do that

It all boils down to whether you feel comfortable with what you do
It really has nothing to do with anyone else


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roronoa79
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13 May 2025, 3:14 pm

Nightwing82 wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Im confused by OP's OP. You say you're considering re-converting, but you make it sound more like you would just be playing along to fit in.
Playing along isn't really honest or healthy in the long run. Doing so to grift others is immoral on top of being unhealthy.

Part of why I stopped going to church was just because I couldn't keep feigning enthusiasm. I don't need their acceptance if their acceptance is contingent on me telling them things I don't believe.

Also: oh, boy! A thread about Islam! Take a drink every time a pseudo-intellectual takes a dump on Islam so they can feel oh-so smart! Oh-so educated and informed! Good gosh they must be so smart and informed to crap on Islam! They're really reaching for the stars with such intellectually and socially daring statements! Way to speak truth to power, guys! /s.


First of all, yes the point is to fit in and avoid headaches. Being constantly pressured to defend my apostacy to family member who have no interest in honestly understanding my perspective. I've grown disillusioned and weary of the US, and I miss my family. The point is just to play along when I'm around certain people. But since they already know about my apostacy, I will need to make some show of announcing that I've returned to the fold. I get where you're coming from regarding not wanting to pretend to be someone you're not; but not all of us are from Western cultures where irregiosity is normalized and accepted.

If it's that important to be near your family, and it doesn't bother you too much to fake it, then no, I don't see an issue with what you propose. I have conservative family, and I've had to lie or stretch the truth about what I believe to keep them from seeing me as some godless degenerate. Feeling alienated from ones own family sucks.

Quote:
Second: where the fudge do you get off on calling me a seudo-intellectual. Ironically, people like to throw such rubbish around are themselves arrogant prices who think they know everything. At what point did I "dump on Islam" in this or any other thread? All I've ever said is that I don't believe the religion and that I'm an apostate. And there's the double standard that people like yourself can bash Christianity all you want, but if a ex-Muslim criticizes Islam than we're somehow out of line. Despite the fact that we have forgotten more about Islam than you've ever known, and (unlike you) we would be sentenced to death in our home countries simply for not believing.

So take your filth and get out of face.

I apologize, OP. This second paragraph wasn't directed at you, to be clear. As with former Christians who are critical of Christianity, I'm more patient with former Muslims critical of Islam. I'm sure you have your reasons. I'm a queero raised in a Christian society--of course I'm understanding of people who have a dim view of Christianity or whatever religion they've seen people use as a cudgel to oppress people.

I've been more defensive about religion lately for various reasons. I routinely see people turn up their noses at religion, and it gets tiresome when it enables real world ignorance. Westerners looooove to mock Islam, and I've grown rather tired of it over the years. Israel is also doing its best to drag the name of Judaism through the mud, and I get *very* mad when people buy in to Israeli propaganda like that.
If I was intense or insulting, please know it was *not* directed at you. It's meant more as a deterrent to people who might insult you for considering converting. I see a thread like this, and my gut fear is it'll be filled with people mocking or judging you for even considering such a thing.
Again, apologies. My bile was not directed at you.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides

Conservatism discourages thought, discussion, consensus, empathy, and hope.


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13 May 2025, 4:04 pm

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Nightwing82, your response to roronoa79 is totally unacceptable; it's only because he's apologised for any misunderstanding that this thread is still up.

Please show more self control when responding to posts.


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13 May 2025, 4:04 pm

I'm reminded of one line in this song.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63F_MA6ZIxM

Quote:
...If you wanna die in bed in times of revolution,
When the flag they fly is red, let pride fill up your chest...


It is the same concept.


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13 May 2025, 5:49 pm

Nightwing82 wrote:
I do not believe that Allah sent revelation to the prophet Muhammed, and I don't see myself becoming convinced of that. But I'm thinking about playing along to fit. That doing so will make my life easier.


I think you've answered your own question...



Nightwing82
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13 May 2025, 10:23 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
Nightwing82 wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
Im confused by OP's OP. You say you're considering re-converting, but you make it sound more like you would just be playing along to fit in.
Playing along isn't really honest or healthy in the long run. Doing so to grift others is immoral on top of being unhealthy.

Part of why I stopped going to church was just because I couldn't keep feigning enthusiasm. I don't need their acceptance if their acceptance is contingent on me telling them things I don't believe.

Also: oh, boy! A thread about Islam! Take a drink every time a pseudo-intellectual takes a dump on Islam so they can feel oh-so smart! Oh-so educated and informed! Good gosh they must be so smart and informed to crap on Islam! They're really reaching for the stars with such intellectually and socially daring statements! Way to speak truth to power, guys! /s.


First of all, yes the point is to fit in and avoid headaches. Being constantly pressured to defend my apostacy to family member who have no interest in honestly understanding my perspective. I've grown disillusioned and weary of the US, and I miss my family. The point is just to play along when I'm around certain people. But since they already know about my apostacy, I will need to make some show of announcing that I've returned to the fold. I get where you're coming from regarding not wanting to pretend to be someone you're not; but not all of us are from Western cultures where irregiosity is normalized and accepted.

If it's that important to be near your family, and it doesn't bother you too much to fake it, then no, I don't see an issue with what you propose. I have conservative family, and I've had to lie or stretch the truth about what I believe to keep them from seeing me as some godless degenerate. Feeling alienated from ones own family sucks.

Quote:
Second: where the fudge do you get off on calling me a seudo-intellectual. Ironically, people like to throw such rubbish around are themselves arrogant prices who think they know everything. At what point did I "dump on Islam" in this or any other thread? All I've ever said is that I don't believe the religion and that I'm an apostate. And there's the double standard that people like yourself can bash Christianity all you want, but if a ex-Muslim criticizes Islam than we're somehow out of line. Despite the fact that we have forgotten more about Islam than you've ever known, and (unlike you) we would be sentenced to death in our home countries simply for not believing.

So take your filth and get out of face.

I apologize, OP. This second paragraph wasn't directed at you, to be clear. As with former Christians who are critical of Christianity, I'm more patient with former Muslims critical of Islam. I'm sure you have your reasons. I'm a queero raised in a Christian society--of course I'm understanding of people who have a dim view of Christianity or whatever religion they've seen people use as a cudgel to oppress people.

I've been more defensive about religion lately for various reasons. I routinely see people turn up their noses at religion, and it gets tiresome when it enables real world ignorance. Westerners looooove to mock Islam, and I've grown rather tired of it over the years. Israel is also doing its best to drag the name of Judaism through the mud, and I get *very* mad when people buy in to Israeli propaganda like that.
If I was intense or insulting, please know it was *not* directed at you. It's meant more as a deterrent to people who might insult you for considering converting. I see a thread like this, and my gut fear is it'll be filled with people mocking or judging you for even considering such a thing.
Again, apologies. My bile was not directed at you.


I misunderstood you, and I apologize.

I have issues with organized religion and I believe it does more harm than. And I am critical of both Islam and Christianity, as those are the two religions I have the most familiarity with. But I am not here to bash religion or argue with anyone about it.

The point of my post is that I regret telling my family about my apostacy. It would have been easy enough to keep it a secret from them even if I spoke openly about it elsewhere. But now that they know, I will have to convince them that I've returned to the fold.



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13 May 2025, 11:57 pm

Nightwing82 wrote:
My family knows I'm an atheist. They live in another country, so I haven't had to deal with it much. But I miss my family and have been thinking about moving closer to where they live.

I do not believe that Allah sent revelation to the prophet Muhammed, and I don't see myself becoming convinced of that. But I'm thinking about playing along to fit. That doing so will make my life easier.

And who knows: maybe I'll even manage to some money from grifting. 8)

But seriously; would this be a good idea?


But would that really make your life easier? Living a lie like that does not sound easy at all like idk I feel like the toll of not being more true to yourself would have negative mental health effects at the very least. So, no I do not think it would be a good idea. Also, what country do they live in? its ok if you don't want to say on here but it is worth considering would you be safe in that country. Like do any of the family members hold your atheism against you, and if it's not an atheism friendly country could a vindictive family member get you in trouble for it with the religious people in that country? I get wanting to be closer to family but depending on where exactly they live it might be a bit dangerous to go back if it's a place that is hostile to atheism.

Oh, just noticed I saw your gender is listed as non-binary....and so I'd also have concerns that the country your family lives in might not be very accepting of that either so idk are you also willing to play along with with what gender they figure you fit into? Just seems potentially dangerous since some Muslim majority countries have very strict rules about stuff like religion and gender roles. Not sure if your family lives in such a country, but if that is the case those are things to consider.


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14 May 2025, 1:45 am

Agree with Sweetleaf. If they're in a country with inflexible rules about Islam, religious freedom or sensuality, rather stay away from them. Not worth it to give up your freedoms, nor to live a lie - which is never easy.


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