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benjimanbreeg
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21 Aug 2008, 5:15 pm

My Mum really helped me out, and did me a big favour. I won't go into details, but i was so pleased and gave her a hug when she told me the news and said thanks so much! She's had a drink tonight. And last night I woke her up in the night when I was on the phone downstairs. I should try to be more quiet :( so she's had to get up early today, as we had some family kids coming round, that she had to look after. That was probably stressful. So then tonight after having a neighbour over and drinking, talking about the family friend that died last week, which we are all very upset about. So just a minute ago, she brings up about me waking her up last night, and says I musn't do the same again tonight. So I say i'm sorry and ok. But she won't let it go, going on and on and on about it, then I lose my temper cause it feels like my heads gonna explode. The she's like "I can't believe you getting agressive, after what i've done for you" "if my Mum did something like that for me" or if I woke my Mum up". I just kept saying sorry, but she went on and on. I almost had a stroke. I felt like running into a wall, or putting my fist through a window. I just wanted it to stop. What am I meant to do or say? Am I really that awful?



MemberSix
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21 Aug 2008, 5:28 pm

You're meant to sit there and take it until she's finished savaging you.

Is she a bit Aspie herself in that she can't achieve emotional satisfaction very readily ?
A kind of emotional perseveration.

All she wants to know is that you understand the way she feels.

Tell her you understand X, Y and Z - then she'll stop.

Saying sorry over and over doesn't show her that you appreciate the way she's feeling - so she'll just go on until she sees you HAVE got it.

It's less about apologising than it is about sharing.



benjimanbreeg
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21 Aug 2008, 5:35 pm

but I do understand. Its hard to think that way though, when it feels like someone is drilling a power drill through my head. No, she's not aspie.



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21 Aug 2008, 5:38 pm

MemberSix wrote:
Is she a bit Aspie herself in that she can't achieve emotional satisfaction very readily ?
A kind of emotional perseveration.


No, a lot of people are like that, it doesn't mean they have Aspergers.

She's probably just a little irate and stressed due to things like the friend's death. Sometimes people get in a sort of funk, and it's nobody's falt.


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21 Aug 2008, 5:42 pm

Especially when they've been drinking.



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21 Aug 2008, 6:31 pm

The thing about mothers is that you are always wrong and they are always right. That's not just your mother, it's everyone's mother. Well, at least everyone I know has the same mother problem.


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benjimanbreeg
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21 Aug 2008, 6:36 pm

Sir_Beefy wrote:
The thing about mothers is that you are always wrong and they are always right. That's not just your mother, it's everyone's mother. Well, at least everyone I know has the same mother problem.



lol, sounds about right!



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21 Aug 2008, 7:20 pm

Sir_Beefy wrote:
The thing about mothers is that you are always wrong and they are always right. That's not just your mother, it's everyone's mother. Well, at least everyone I know has the same mother problem.


I think that goes for pretty much every woman



ZakFiend
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21 Aug 2008, 8:42 pm

benjimanbreeg wrote:
What am I meant to do or say? Am I really that awful?


Socrates once said, "I know you won't believe me, but the highest form of Human Excellence is to question oneself and others."-- Socrates

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle--Plato

The direction in which education starts a man will determine his future --Plato

You are young, my son, and, as the years go by, time will change and even reverse many of your present opinions. Refrain therefore awhile from setting yourself up as a judge of the highest matters -- Plato

A hero is born among a hundred, a wise man is found among a thousand, but an accomplished one might not be found even among a hundred thousand men. --Plato

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrates

Read the works plato and the philosophers before the ignorance of other people around you gets into your head, I've had over 30 years of growing since I was inanely stupid and "followed the rules" ... so I hope you listen.

No you're not awful, take it from someone who lived most of his life "sucking it up". Don't suck it up, ESCALATE to the maximum and watch the results. It will be tough but put as much energy as possible into yelling obscenities and threatening people who won't shut up or back down, don't listten to them, period. Most people have not a _clue_, and if you don't think so, hyst look at your mothers life. Look at how she makes decisions and the crappy decisions she has made. Most likely she sucks in many ways, just remember ALL people are TERRIBLY flawed. Don't be excessively compassionate against ignorant people -- call them on their BS because they are being mean and unloving so they deserve as much back.

Only suck it up if they have a genuine point and you are learning something, never let ignorant people get away with their BS. That is where humanity went wrong, their "Rights" and "equality", and "treating everyone with respect", it's mostly a farce. People are not equal in terms of mind, character, and ability to think and deconstruct their own erroneous thoughts and behaviour. People are trapped in the bubble of their biology, trapped by their primitive impulses, that most of them never question. The fact that you question yourself and have self doubt is proof positive you are smarter then she is. Always be willing to question anything. Do me a favor -- read about socrates, plato, etc, most people you learn from will cloud your judgement severely until you can't think properly.

Your mom was being totally irrational, you have to stand up for yourself. Neurotypicals only understand what they are doing to you. What you should have done is reflect it (key word here) and parrot it back to her in her own tone of voice so she could get how annoying she was being. Don't be afraid to hurt other peoples feelings. I speak from 30 years of experience, you're most likely smarter then your mother (i.e. she wouldn't just stop, she was being unloving) she couldn't just let it go, so you tell her "Let it go, you're the one who's supposed to be an adult here, I heard you the first time. So drop it, you're acting more immature then I am".

Don't let anyone walk over you because they will. Most people are profoundly stupid and ignorant of how to think, how to reason, and how to behave they don't even know their own thoughts, most of it is unconscious. They're on a lower cognitive plane, do not get crushed by these people, I always caved in when I was younger doing what I was told, it was all lies to keep you under control and keep you feeling like you're not worth anything, it will end up hurting you if you don't stand up for yourself, people's feelings get hurt but they don't last, they're forgetful and she's your mother. Esclate to the maximum possible until she gets it, you have to let her know you'll make the biggest scene imaginable...

I got a story about my brother: My brother accused me of shutting off the internet one night, and he kept going on and on about how I shut off his internet and he wouldn't listen to reason I sat there talking and talking and then I got so annoyed, I started getting aggressive (not hiting him) I said at the loudest of my voice "If you don't f*****g shut up I am going to kill you, you are being irraitonal" and then I kept saying "I'm going to kill you, I'm going to kill you"

And then he finally realized, that I wouldn't say that or take it that far if I wasn't telling the truth. People are constnatly malfunctioning all the time, you have to call them on their crappy thinking and poor memory or else it will just end up hurting you.



benjimanbreeg
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22 Aug 2008, 11:10 am

thanks! But well, my Mum isn't an ignorant bad person. She's a saint. She helps me all the time, and I don't know where i'd be without her. Then she has some wine and all that goes! Just today after a funeral, I asked the son, an old friend of mine, of he would like a game of golf sometime, and told him, he knows where I am. He said he may take me up on that. Then when we got home. My Mum started saying "you have to go to him" "he's just lost someone" "you have to make the move" even though i'd said it to him twice. So I told her, i'm not gonna keep knocking on his door. I just said he'll come to me if he wants, in an angry tone, then she got upset again!



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22 Aug 2008, 1:45 pm

Sounds like she's stressed out.

My mom used to go on and on and on and on about stuff and after YEARS of defending, denying, explaining, etc. etc. (I'm 38) I finally learned, with great effort to

1. Not look mad. Put on a concerned face and

2. In a REALLY CALM VOICE (the HARDEST PART) Say, "OK" repeatedly. Or "I'm sorry." - whatever is appropriate. Maybe even throw in a thoughtful nod if you're feeling particularly confident.

After awhile, she would stop because there was nothing to argue about! heheheheh.

This might work.


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benjimanbreeg
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22 Aug 2008, 1:50 pm

thanks!! true, but when someone is drunk, its different



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22 Aug 2008, 2:00 pm

RubieRoze wrote:
Sounds like she's stressed out.

My mom used to go on and on and on and on about stuff and after YEARS of defending, denying, explaining, etc. etc. (I'm 38) I finally learned, with great effort to

1. Not look mad. Put on a concerned face and

2. In a REALLY CALM VOICE (the HARDEST PART) Say, "OK" repeatedly. Or "I'm sorry." - whatever is appropriate. Maybe even throw in a thoughtful nod if you're feeling particularly confident.

After awhile, she would stop because there was nothing to argue about! heheheheh.

This might work.


I like this response :)

The thing is, the mom just needed to vent. And when someone has been drinking, they lose perspective on just how much they have vented, and so can go quite far overboard. You have to remember that venting is about the person who is talking, NOT about the person who did the offense. You have done your part, agreed that you did something that was negative towards her, apologized, and agreed to work harder to prevent it in the future. What else CAN you do? Nothing. And she knows it. Well, when she is sober, anyway. But sometimes emotions take hold, and go beyond what is reasonable. Especially when one has been drinking. In our good moments, we know that, and tell the person we are talking to that we just need to vent. In our bad moments, we may be less aware, but the same truth exists: the level of emotion and the need to express it is out of proportion to the offense. YOU are NOT that bad. Her emotions are just out of control. So the best you can do is allow her to get it off her chest while keeping the words from hitting you. Remind yourself that the words are out of proportion, that it's excess emotion she is dealing with, and NOT the issue she is using to release that emotion.


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22 Aug 2008, 2:12 pm

What a friend told me to do, is if someone is really mad at me, ask "What's wrong?" and listen and do my best to understand and talk about what they are feeling, rather than what I am feeling. That, basically, if I start going on to them about how bad they make me feel when they're mad at me, then I'll be putting the focus all back on me instead of them, and they won't like that.

This stuff is so utterly confusing.

I also learned that sometimes people who love each other or like each other fight like this, and that's okay, it gets better in time, it's just a result of such frequent interaction, sometimes people will be frustrated or angry.

Took me forever to learn even a little not to take people literally when they're mad. Not everything they say is something they really mean, sometimes there is a kernel of truth but sometimes it is just their emotions getting the better of them.

And since that happens to me as well, I can't really fault them for it more than I can fault myself (yes it's wrong, but it's something everyone does just about).

The "After all I've done for you..." thing... that can be so poisonous inside though. It puts the "helped" (at least, helped in certain ways) in a subordinate power relation to the "helper", and on the face of it, tends to demand constant and total obedience and meekness as a showing of gratitude. Which is a real problem disabled people get into in general, people think we owe them things that aren't humanly possible, or else we're "biting the hand that feeds us" and so forth.

So that is a thing she should not be saying.

But people say a lot of things they should not say when they are mad. If that bothers you, you might want to talk about it to her sometime when you are both calm and relaxed. During angry outbursts is not the time to try to reason things out, people are not rational enough right then.

All of this, though, is incredibly hard, it's taken me my entire life to work out even as much as I have, which I know isn't enough.


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benjimanbreeg
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22 Aug 2008, 4:43 pm

thanks to all! :)