Imagination and asperger's?

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As DH and I read more about Asperger's, most of it fits my son all too well, but there are a couple of things that don't seem to apply at all. I realize that it is a spectrum and that not all people with AS exhibit all features of the description, but there is one area where my son differs dramatically-he most definitely does not have "an impairment in imagination". Having a huge, vivid imagination is really one of the defining characteristics of who my son is. He is extremely creative and has spent a huge amount of time pretending to be different characters (playing "dress up"), drawing, building with Lego, making up stories and playing with various action figures etc. These activities usually centre around his special interest at the time. For example last year when life was all about Star Wars (particularly the Fett family of bounty hunters), he dressed in a Boba Fett costume, played for hours with his Star Wars figures (not just lining them up and organizing them, but imagining elaborate scenarios and enacting them with his figures), made his own Star wars comic books and even drew up plans for a bounty hunter video game. He wasn't just repeating scripts from the movies and books, but was creating his own new scenarios and ideas, using George Lucas' characters and settings for a jumping off point.

He gets so wrapped up in his own imagination, that he can play on his own for hours and hours at a time and has a really, really difficult time wrenching himself out of his own world and back into reality. When he was a preschooler, we used to sometimes worry about him being able to distinguish between what was imagined and what was real.

So I see my son as being way more creative than the average kid, and I'm not quite sure how this fits with his difficulty with executive functions? Or lack of social imagination?

I was interested to read through this old thread and poll in the General Autism discussion. 78% of responders said that they had vivid imaginations? So is lack of imagination an AS misconception?

I'd love to hear from other parents about whether or not their AS children participate in pretend play? or are imaginative or creative in any way? Or from adult aspies about their own creativity?

I've found several things in clinical descriptions to be puzzling; some became clear only after reading many and comparing the descriptions.

Sometimes I came to realize that what was being described simply wasn't being described clearly, but in a sort of clinical shorthand. Other times I think the confusion came from trying to re-describe at second or third hand - in other words, what the Aspies said (alligator) and what got written in the report (lizard) were not identical, and therefore tend to cloud the concept.

example: took me a while to realize the description "sees lights or hears sounds others do not" was not a reference to a hallucinatory experience, but to heightened perceptions.

As to imagination, I'm professionally involved in both writing and visual graphics, and yet fit virtually every other symptom description to a tee. On the other hand, what exactly does 'social imagination' mean? I can imagine anything for a fictional character, but it would never occur to me in real life to plan a trip to a hockey game.

I have a very vivid and active imagination which works similarly to your son's. Throughout my childhood all the way up to the present, my imagination has been an important, active part of my life. I really don't understand why some diagnostic criteria list "lacking an imagination" as a symptom.

From the National Autistic Society website:

"People with Asperger syndrome can be imaginative in the conventional use of the word. For example, many are accomplished writers, artists and musicians. But people with Asperger syndrome can have difficulty with social imagination. This can include:

imagining alternative outcomes to situations and finding it hard to predict what will happen next
understanding or interpreting other peoples thoughts, feelings or actions. The subtle messages that are put across by facial expression and body language are often missed
having a limited range of imaginative activities, which can be pursued rigidly and repetitively eg lining up toys or collecting and organising things related to his or her interest.
Some children with Asperger syndrome may find it difficult to play 'let's pretend' games or prefer subjects rooted in logic and systems, such as mathematics."

Like it says "some" children", the problems don't seem to be universal

By the way when I was a kid I was the same way with my Star Wars toys - hours upon hours of fun

I think the "lacks imagination" is an error in observation. Like this

I agree, to say an autistic may lack imagination is a complete missunderstanding. Most of the world's greatest inventors are believed to have been Aspies. Obviously, invention takes imagination.

But, I suppose, when you have a group that enjoys repeating movie phrases (not that my son does, but many do), many assume there is a "lack of imagination."

It simply depends on what type of imagination is being discussed.

My son has the most amazing imagination I have can dream of. He has already composed in his head several book series, full of intricate details, characters and back stories. He invents an average of one entirely new game a week, that he beta tests with kids at school. He intends to become an inventor, and his teachers at school fully expect him to (I'm less inclined to count eggs before they hatch, lol, but the postive reinforcement is good).

Here's a thought on 'imagination' versus 'social imagination':

When I was a kid, George Reeves' Superman series was on in reruns every afternoon, and until Adam West came along as Batman, it was my favorite show. My mom made me a Superman costume which I loved to death, and I spent hours leaping off the couch and racing up and down the hall in it. But anytime another kid showed up to play, it went in the back of the closet and there it stayed until they left. I didn't even tell them I had it, much less wear it in front of them.

I could play on the floor with soldiers endlessly, giving each character a name and even specific injuries and abilities. But when other kids wanted to role-play as cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians, that was a whole different universe. It made me feel exposed, vulnerable and foolish. Where in one situation I controlled the imaginary world, the other felt dangerously out of my control, and I simply couldn't abide the anxiety it produced. It was that classic Aspie sense of never quite knowing exactly what was expected of me, and feeling no matter what I did, it wouldn't be quite right.

I confess the same would be true to this day. If a lover wanted to dress in sexy costume for me, I'd be thrilled to see it, as long as I didn't have to do the same, or play an active 'role' in the fantasy scenario. Well, you know, beyond tucking in the dollar bills.

'Imagination' vs 'Social Imagination'

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=_vmK0InZL_s[/youtube]

This whole question really bothered me to. I have a 9 year old son dx'd AS.
My boy is well known for his imagination, he spends most of his time (when not on the pc) in his own little fantasy world.
The only games he likes to play at school are ones that he has made up, the other kids have to play by his rules.
When we were going threw the disgnoses stage my older son and I spent a lot of time watching and listening to my 9 year old play. Most of what he plays (my older son informs me) is a mix and match of games, movies, books etc that he has been exposed to, not all word for word though. If you think about it though isnt this what "normal" kids do they just use different mediums. I also thinks it takes a great deal of intelligence to blend all this information into a workable new senario.
I think where the dysfunction for lack of a better word on my boys part anyway, fits in, is in his ability (or lack of) to be able to accept someone elses input or changes/senarios in his games.

I hope this made sense, I know what I ment to say lol

ditto for both me and my son.

extremely vivid imagionation which is frightening without an outlet. I write. Hopefully, he will find his niche.

The criteria is either WRONG or WRONGLY INTERPRETED - aspies have very good imagination. I'd venture to say - much better than NTs.

The issue seems to be in knowing when to turn the imagination on and off.

My son will often be dogmatically factual (eg: like the alligator example) when imagination is expected by the teachers.

Similarly, when he's being particularly imaginative, it's likely that the teaching staff will consider this as "being silly".

I remember those issues clearly from when I was at school - and I remember being silenced when the rest of the class were unable to follow my imaginative answers. I'm 38 now but I still have anxiety over sentences that I wasn't permitted to finish at school.

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I feel like I'm understanding it better now. I really like the description from the National Autistic Society. It makes it much clearer than what I was reading.

From the National Autistic Society website:

"People with Asperger syndrome can be imaginative in the conventional use of the word. For example, many are accomplished writers, artists and musicians. But people with Asperger syndrome can have difficulty with social imagination. This can include:

imagining alternative outcomes to situations and finding it hard to predict what will happen next
understanding or interpreting other peoples thoughts, feelings or actions. The subtle messages that are put across by facial expression and body language are often missed
having a limited range of imaginative activities, which can be pursued rigidly and repetitively eg lining up toys or collecting and organising things related to his or her interest.
Some children with Asperger syndrome may find it difficult to play 'let's pretend' games or prefer subjects rooted in logic and systems, such as mathematics."

Like it says "some" children", the problems don't seem to be universal

By the way when I was a kid I was the same way with my Star Wars toys - hours upon hours of fun

It always struck me as odd that they would credit people with autism as being more "picture oriented" and yet say we can not "imagine?"...imagining is all I do...I visualize.

In contrast to many here, I can't "create something out of nothing." I have to have a base on which to build. I
played Annie Oakley" when I was a kid because I wanted to be her and I tried to get in her "skin" based on the things I had read about her....that is "acting as if" not creating a new character. When I was asked to write stories for class...they were a composite of characters I liked from books and TV...not original, but a synthesized hodge-podge. That is also how I create art...not by drawing a picture in my head but actually copying a picture I was looking at or taking a bunch of pictures and putting them together. My imagination works better in the invention form...how can I improve on something...sometimes that sparks something no one else considered(especially when problem solving).


I also didn't play pretend with my stuffed animals. They were very real beings to me...I wasn't pretending when I talked to them, I was responding to what I believed were sentient beings. When I believed that I was an alien...I believed it...I wasn't being imaginative. I think some of our literalism can be misunderstood as not "imagining"? To me, that kind of imagining had another name...lie,and I found it unpleasant(where are the boundaries of real and fake) or boring(my peers playing those games with characters I didn't care about..who the hell wants to play teacher or house wife???)

I think this is further proof that NT's can also have problems of "theory of mind" when trying to understand autistics. They define everything based on their own perceptions,definitions and life experiences. Which begs the question..why don;t they put more research into understanding adult aspies who can speak for themselves?