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The hard work equals success myth

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ZenDen
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04 Nov 2016, 11:08 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
My two cents.

My take on this when I was working, was: "No one would "out-work" me." Even though I didn't have a clue about Asperger Syndrome I knew there was something others brought to the workplace that I didn't. I was determined to show I could be of value without the social skills of others so I made sure no one would be a "better worker" than I.

This plan worked for me (only lost a job once...and that just temporarily) no matter if I was pushing around, or building heavy machinery for a living, or if my job was buying/selling/negotiating...I always put in extra effort and time to make my effort worthwhile.

If my nose hadn't been to the grindstone I don't feel the outcome (financially at least) would have been as good. Just makes sense.

Fin


I just knew from school days to employment that I had to work harder then everybody else to but I did not know why. In employment it helped me in the 80's and into the 90's to a degree in that I stayed in jobs 7 or 8 years at time which I probably would have been fired from due to ability and social skills. Still when downsizing occurred it was always me first. When hiring criteria changed from more merit based to networking and being a team player and networking skills from the 90's onward I became gradually unemployable. In the late 90's onward I was told a number of times never to tell a potential employer I worked a lot of overtime because they will think you are not skilled.


I got lucky. When the "networking" period started I was already working in the job I'd hoped to stay since '85. It did become more difficult in terms of customer interaction, but I hung on till '05 and retired then.



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04 Nov 2016, 11:30 am

anagram wrote:
if the 90% i'm talking about are underfunded public schools where everyone is taken for granted and underpaid (some more than others, but still, nearly everyone is underpaid), and the 10% are private schools where everyone is well-paid (because any parents who can afford to keep their children out of public schools will be willing to pay disproportionately high prices for it)


http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... rs/280829/

Guess what, private schools actually pay less than public schools, by a large margin. It was like this when I was going to school, when I was lucky enough to take calculus from one of the best math teachers in the country--he graded AP calculus exams.



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04 Nov 2016, 3:42 pm

BTDT wrote:
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

Guess what, private schools actually pay less than public schools, by a large margin.

huh. that's pretty bizarre

it's definitely not the case in my country though


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BTDT
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04 Nov 2016, 3:53 pm

Another example of not working hard is doing security clearance work as a professional engineering--you start out by waiting for your security clearance. And, because a lot of people have issues designing weapon systems, the pay can be quite high for the work you actually do. Come to think of it, working as an engineer in the military might be perfect for some aspies--perhaps as a civilian contractor. More about patiently following rules than working hard.



Last edited by BTDT on 04 Nov 2016, 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ZenDen
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04 Nov 2016, 3:54 pm

BTDT wrote:
anagram wrote:
if the 90% i'm talking about are underfunded public schools where everyone is taken for granted and underpaid (some more than others, but still, nearly everyone is underpaid), and the 10% are private schools where everyone is well-paid (because any parents who can afford to keep their children out of public schools will be willing to pay disproportionately high prices for it)


http://www.theatlantic.com/education/ar ... rs/280829/

Guess what, private schools actually pay less than public schools, by a large margin. It was like this when I was going to school, when I was lucky enough to take calculus from one of the best math teachers in the country--he graded AP calculus exams.


I was lucky enough to take calculus from one of the best math teachers in the country

Lucky you! My son also had a winner. His "watchword" was: No matter the field you want to go into, be it physics, medicine, anything at all, it didn't make any difference... "but you've got to have the math." :D

He made a great impression on my son.



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04 Nov 2016, 4:48 pm

Drake wrote:
OP, or anyone, show me an example of this fallacy. Because I've never seen it.

A strong work ethic is a virtue and helpful to your chances in a wide variety of ways. But I've never seen it claimed to be what the OP says. For instance, do you think anyone really thinks that Usain Bolt is the fastest man that's ever lived because he works harder than anyone else who's ever lived at being the fastest man on the planet and all those other athletes just need to work harder and want it more than Bolt and they'll get it? But you can be damn sure if Bolt hadn't worked as hard as he has, then he wouldn't be the fastest that's ever lived.

When talent doesn't work hard, hard work beats talent. You can see this in action in sport.

Where I live, it's a commonplace. And the flipside? If you're not successful, obviously you're a slacker who deserves to starve to death. So, SO many people in day to day life, plus most of our newspapers, assume that anyone who's unemployed, or underemployed, or just plain working-class must be a lazy bastard living it up on the taxpayer's dime. Right-wingers in particular think of the rich as "hard workers" who deserve tax breaks, but people like nurses, firefighters, steelworkers, factory workers etc. somehow deserve their chronic low wages. I've heard people sneer at firemen for taking part in union activities for the first time in a decade- people who enter burning buildings to save lives are apparently a bunch of slackers who shouldn't be allowed to negotiate for better pay.


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ZenDen
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04 Nov 2016, 5:23 pm

PhosphorusDecree wrote:
Drake wrote:
OP, or anyone, show me an example of this fallacy. Because I've never seen it.

A strong work ethic is a virtue and helpful to your chances in a wide variety of ways. But I've never seen it claimed to be what the OP says. For instance, do you think anyone really thinks that Usain Bolt is the fastest man that's ever lived because he works harder than anyone else who's ever lived at being the fastest man on the planet and all those other athletes just need to work harder and want it more than Bolt and they'll get it? But you can be damn sure if Bolt hadn't worked as hard as he has, then he wouldn't be the fastest that's ever lived.

When talent doesn't work hard, hard work beats talent. You can see this in action in sport.

Where I live, it's a commonplace. And the flipside? If you're not successful, obviously you're a slacker who deserves to starve to death. So, SO many people in day to day life, plus most of our newspapers, assume that anyone who's unemployed, or underemployed, or just plain working-class must be a lazy bastard living it up on the taxpayer's dime. Right-wingers in particular think of the rich as "hard workers" who deserve tax breaks, but people like nurses, firefighters, steelworkers, factory workers etc. somehow deserve their chronic low wages. I've heard people sneer at firemen for taking part in union activities for the first time in a decade- people who enter burning buildings to save lives are apparently a bunch of slackers who shouldn't be allowed to negotiate for better pay.


SO many people in day to day life, plus most of our newspapers, assume that anyone who's unemployed, or underemployed, or just plain working-class must be a lazy bastard living it up on the taxpayer's dime etc., etc..

You know, much of what you say applies to the U.S. as well. But this little bit doesn't quite match what's going on over here...from my personal point of view. Don't know why we would be much different; maybe a different history of labor relations?